Poll: Should Turkey be allowed to join EU?
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Yes
16.67%
1 16.67%
No
83.33%
5 83.33%
I don't care
0%
0 0%
Total 6 vote(s) 100%
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Should Turkey be allowed to join EU?
#1
Quote:In the EU

Public opinion in EU countries generally opposes Turkish membership, though with varying degrees of intensity. The Eurobarometer September-October 2006 survey shows that 59% of EU-27 citizens are against Turkey joining the EU, while only about 28% are in favour. Nearly all citizens (about 9 in 10) expressed concerns about human rights as the leading cause. In the earlier March-May 2006 Eurobarometer, citizens from the new member states were more in favour of Turkey joining (44% in favour) than the old EU-15 (38% in favour). At the time of the survey, the country whose population most strongly opposed Turkish membership was Austria (con: 81%), while Romania was most in favour of the accession (pro: 66%). On a wider political scope, the highest support comes from the Turkish Cypriot Community (pro: 67%) (which is not recognised as sovereign state and is de facto not EU territory and out of the European institutions). These communities are even more in favour of the accession than the Turkish populace itself (pro: 54%). Opposition in Denmark to Turkish membership was polled at 60% in October 2007, despite the Danish government's support for Turkey's EU bid.

In Turkey

The opening of membership talks with the EU in December 2004 was celebrated by Turkey with much fanfare, but the Turkish populace has become increasingly skeptical as negotiations are delayed based on what it views as lukewarm support for its accession to the EU and alleged double standards in its negotiations particularly with regard to the French and Austrian referendums. A mid-2006 Eurobarometer survey revealed that 43% of Turkish citizens view the EU positively; just 35% trust the EU, 45% support enlargement and just 29% support an EU constitution.

More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_o...pean_Union

Quote:Turkey's EU bid overshadows Angela Merkel visit

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has repeated her belief that Turkey is not suitable for full EU membership, on the first day of an official Turkish visit.

Turkey should not view her offer of a "privileged partnership" - rather than full membership - negatively, she said.

Turkey, which began negotiations to become a member in 2005, has dismissed that offer as an insult.

There were also disagreements over Iran, Cyprus and educating Turkish children in Germany in Turkish.

Germany is Turkey's biggest trading partner, its biggest foreign investor, its biggest source of tourist revenue, and nearly three million Turks live in Germany.

But, says the BBC's Jonathan Head in Istanbul, for two countries with such deep-rooted historical and economic ties, Germany and Turkey struggled to find a common voice during Mrs Merkel's visit.

More: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8592170.stm
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#2
Turkey will soon have a population bigger than germany. that means that in case they become a full member they will soon have the most votes in european parliament, do you really want that from a country that could easily end up with a dictatorship as it was recently proven? In case you don't remember a couple of months ago it was revealed that certain people in the military were planning a coup to overthrow the government by harassing greece's airspace and if needed shooting down one of their own planes, blaming the greeks.

Moreover Turkey has many problems with many of its neighbors and there is also the human rights issue.

Last but not least comes the religious issue. Europe as a union is unstable as it is, it doesn't need another member that is culturally and religiously different. We should first work out our own problems and try to reach a political union first imo. Clear cut "no" from me
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#3
I say No!

I want to answer and write something about this issue with by bad English.

Quote:Turkey will soon have a population bigger than germany. that means that in case they become a full member they will soon have the most votes in european parliament

This is true. Smile

Quote:In case you don't remember a couple of months ago it was revealed that certain people in the military were planning a coup to overthrow the government by harassing greece's airspace and if needed shooting down one of their own planes, blaming the greeks.

No no no no... These are still rumuors! They cannot be proved yet. So that's the comic part of the issue. No proof, but alot of people were arrested! Because what? Because of claims! Only claims, some people take decisions about others' lives. Harassing issues are wrong because our mitilary services proved these rumuors by videos. I dont want to write about this issue but I can give you a clue: all big nationalists are still arrested!

Quote:Moreover Turkey has many problems with many of its neighbors and there is also the human rights issue.

Thats wrong. Syria, Persia, Azerbaycan etc. These are our friends! Only Greece wants to bust up sometimes but I think it is temporary situation. Their hostility's history is based on Ottomans! Ottomans had current Greek territory, so they have a historical hostility.

Turkiye is blamed for human rights. Smile For example, a terrorist was killed, human right association and some EU members go to terrorist's home for condolence!! Sorry, which human right?? 40000 Turkish people are murdered by these terrorists, where are their rights? Why don't big big(!) EU members go the soldiers' houses for condolence?

Turkiye has no problem on human rights. These are Europe's lies. We can see events sometimes but never you can never see a colective movement. For example many European supporters are racist(like Assamoah, Etoo, Lazio events) but in Turkiye can you say an event? No!

Quote:Last but not least comes the religious issue. Europe as a union is unstable as it is, it doesn't need another member that is culturally and religiously different.

I agree with you.

In Turkiye, people don't want to join EU(very big part)! But our politicians want it. I dont know what their benefits are..
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#4
Quote:No no no no... These are still rumuors! They cannot be proved yet. So that's the comic part of the issue. No proof, but alot of people were arrested! Because what? Because of claims! Only claims, some people take decisions about others' lives. Harassing issues are wrong because our mitilary services proved these rumuors by videos. I dont want to write about this issue but I can give you a clue: all big nationalists are still arrested!

These rumors where not disproved either so far. even by distinct possibility of truth, this is very bad. and we all know the military has too much power in turkey interfering in state affairs to keep kemal's legacy in order.

Thats wrong. Syria, Persia, Azerbaycan etc. These are our friends! Only Greece wants to bust up sometimes but I think it is temporary situation. Their hostility's history is based on Ottomans! Ottomans had current Greek territory, so they have a historical hostility.

Tuekry has problems with greece, cyprus and armenia (genocide recognition?). Put Israel into that mix too, they are also neighbors (remember the switzerland incident with erdogan?). And about greece busting up, you know in greece they say the opposite i imagine (that turkey is aggressive). sending fighters to fly over greek airspace on a daily basis is not exactly friendly, but i can very well imagine that these are sent by military and with no political order.

Quote:Turkiye is blamed for human rights. Smile For example, a terrorist was killed, human right association and some EU members go to terrorist's home for condolence!! Sorry, which human right?? 40000 Turkish people are murdered by these terrorists, where are their rights? Why don't big big(!) EU members go the soldiers' houses for condolence?

Turkiye has no problem on human rights. These are Europe's lies. We can see events sometimes but never you can never see a colective movement. For example many European supporters are racist(like Assamoah, Etoo, Lazio events) but in Turkiye can you say an event? No!

if the above (the planned coup) are only rumors/lies/ not true, why are people sitting in jail? isn't that a human rights violation? and wasn't it the case that the kurdish language was banned from schools even in kurdish populated areas?

Quote:I agree with you.

In Turkiye, people don't want to join EU(very big part)! But our politicians want it. I dont know what their benefits are..

Main reason: influx of huge amounts of money. talking tens of billions of euros here

ps: just to clarify, personally i'm irreligious, so i don't give a flying shit about that, but there are many people, both christians and muslims that are still fanatics in europe and turkey. sad...
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#5
Quote:we all know the military has too much power in turkey interfering in state affairs to keep Kemal's legacy in order.

Turkish Army's first duty is to preserve and to defend Turkish Independence and the Turkish Republic forever. The army must be powerful because of our strategic and historical status. When our Ancestors pushed back the intruders, a generation was destroyed. The unfortunate part: some countries' soldiers came to fight with us but they didnot know why they would fight against us. A lot of stories we have about this issue.

Quote:Turkey has problems with Greece, Cyprus and Armenia (genocide recognition?). Put Israel into that mix too, they are also neighbors (remember the Switzerland incident with Erdogan?). And about greece busting up, you know in greece they say the opposite i imagine (that turkey is aggressive). sending fighters to fly over greek airspace on a daily basis is not exactly friendly, but i can very well imagine that these are sent by military and with no political order.

Many years ago, our Ancestors had a big empire which was located on three continents. Current Greek, Rum and Armenian people are our citizens long years. So they hate us now. If Ottomans(1299-1922) had wanted to make pressure, they could have made it easily. But they did not! Armenians are the best friends of Ottomans and they took critical duties in Ottomans' Palace. But they were deceived by Russia and England. They made big slaughters in Anatolia. I will take back this part but let me clarify you:

It was claimed that genocide was carried out by the Ottoman Empire from 1915 to 1923. We know that V. Dadrian and many other leading Armenian historians have claimed the loss of the Armenian life during World War I due to the actions of the Ottoman Empire was 1.5 million. Before we comment on these exaggerated figures, we must emphasize that the Ottoman Empire had exited the stage of history in 1923. This fact indicates that the Armenian lobby is directly targeting the Republic of Turkey and aims to keep Turkey from avoiding punishment for the refusal to acknowledge its heritage. As for the figures, we may state with certainty that the claimed number of Armenian victims is an exaggeration. First of all, many independent researchers have estimated that the Armenian population in 1914 ranged between 1.400000 and 1.700000. The claim that 1.5 million Armenians were killed is also a myth. This myth originated from the report of Leslie Davis, the US consul at Harput. He wrote on July 24, 1915 -- the 44th day after the order for deportation -- that “It is impossible to say how many Armenians have been killed, but it is estimated that the number is not far from a million” (NARA 867.4016/269). Even Dadrian vouches for 1 million survivors and estimates the number of Armenian victims at 1.1 million. During the Paris Peace Conference in 1919, the Armenian leader, Bogos Nubar Pasha, spoke about the deportation of 600-700,000 Armenians. In addition, the Patriarchate calculated in 1919 that the total number of Armenians living in Anatolia was 644,000. A document released by the League of Nations stated the number of Armenians in 1922 who originated from Turkey was 817,873 and states that “the total given does not include the able-bodied Armenians” who still lived in Turkey. Last but not least, in a memorandum sent to English and French embassies by the Patriarchate in 1919, it claimed that “200,000 Armenians were buried alive or were drowned in Van Lake, the Fırat River and the Black Sea between 1914 and 1918.” (Report presented to the Preliminary Peace Conference by the Commission for the Responsibility of the Authors of the War and on the Enforcement of Penalties, March 29, 1919). These figures clearly demonstrate that the Armenian historians have exaggerated the figures about the number of Armenian victims during the war.

Also I must say, the countries blame us: Russia was carrying out pogroms on the Jews in their country, and England had already deported citizens of German origin to concentration camps. These are historical truths. So?

More, all studies dealing with the implementation of relocation have so far indicated that by the relocation of the Armenians the Ottomans tried to prevent a full scale rebellion behind their army lines which had already started in the centers such as Erzurum, Zeytun and Bitlis just before the entry of the Ottoman Empire into WWI. It is known that when the Ottoman military declared mobilisation in August 1914, most members of ARF and other Armenian political parties fled and joined the Russians, as was decided in the secret committee meetings. Even Karekin Pastermadjian, an Armenian deputy in the Ottoman Parliament and also a member of Dashnak party, had joined one of these units to lead the Armenian voluntary forces. According to the Russian historians, there were 23 Ottoman-Armenian units in the Russian army at the very beginning of the war, making roughly 11,500 soldiers. Plus there were 40,000 Armenian armed volunteers only in the Caucasian region fighting for the Russians. There were also Armenian volunteer units scattered all over Turkey. The number of these fugitives and/or collaborators within the Ottoman Empire will never be fully known. Bogos Nubar Pasha in one of his letters to the Foreign Ministry of France stated that they were fighting on the side of the Allied forces against the Ottoman Empire with almost 200,000 Armenian soldiers. In view of these figures, it can be seen how correct Arnold Toynbee was, when he wrote that Ottoman Armenians became the ‘fifth column’ of the Russians in occupied territories of the Ottoman Empire. This so-called “fifth column” was obviously accountable for the massacres of 124,000 Muslims between August 1914 and March 1916. This very fact also justifies the necessity of removing Armenians behind army lines.

The law of relocation was only limited to the areas of strategic importance for the military, and secondly, the law also left out a reasonable amount of the Armenian population from relocation. Indeed, Ottoman government of the time had defined many exemption categories for the Armenians. According to the documents released by the Directorate of Turkish Archives, the following groups were not to be transferred:

-Protestant and Catholic Armenians,

(At the beginning they were totally exempted from relocation, but in time, due to changing circumstances some groups of Catholics and Protestants had to be sent away. However there were no mass transfers among them.)

-Armenians living in the cities of Istanbul, Edirne, Aydın, Bursa, İzmir, Antalya, Kütahya, Kastamonu and many other western towns,
-Armenian soldiers and their families,
-Officers and those in the medical corps of the Ottoman army and their families,
-Officers employed in the branches of the Ottoman Bank at Istanbul and the provinces,
-Employees in the Régie and Public Debt establishments,
-Employees of the foreign consulates,
-Officers of the post office,
-Teachers of the Armenian and Missionary schools and their families,
-The sick, the blinds and other disabled people etc.

Turkey has officially invited interested parties to set up an historical commission to examine the events of 1915 and 1916. A similar offer was made in 1919 by the Ottoman Government to Holland, Spain and Sweden. None, then, had given a positive response.

Furthermore, Armenian Diaspora established terrorists groups like ASALA which killed 42 Turkish diplomats and citizens around the World in a total of 110 terrorist attacks between 1973 and 1984. The same groups have still been putting pressure upon academicians who dare to write anything against the Armenian claims. For instance, Bernard Lewis, a distinguished scholar of the history of Middle East was sued by the Armenians for writing his research results in a correct manner from a scholarly perspective and Prof. Stanford J. Shaw’s house was bombed by the Armenian terrorists. Despite all these misconducts of Armenians, it is to be hoped that Turkey and Armenia will one day seat around the table, and reassess the events of 1915 and 1916. Of course, the realisation of this process shall be dependent upon Armenia and her giving up its historic claims on Turkey and building peaceful relations with its neighbours.

Our history cannot evaluated with few info. Wink This topic is too deep and I start to use dictionary. My answers will go on another post. Wink
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#6
Quote:Put Israel into that mix too, they are also neighbors (remember the switzerland incident with erdogan?)

Our politics' decisions are strange. But Erdogan made the right thing according to me. Because they disrespect to Turkish Prime Minister. However, this is not a problem between Turks and Israels I think. This is only a problem between the politics. I got acquainted with two Israel citizens and I can say they are pleasent and friendly. And can you show me a country which have no problem with their neighbours?

Quote:if the above (the planned coup) are only rumors/lies/ not true, why are people sitting in jail? isn't that a human rights violation?

This is special point in Turkey. But with a human rigth violation, you cannot make general the events. This is like a war with USA&NATO-lovers and USA&NATO-haters. And now haters are arrested.

Quote:wasn't it the case that the kurdish language was banned from schools even in kurdish populated areas?

This is a bad propagand's result. Smile Of course not. Smile But this mentality is wrong. Turkey has 70+ folk in its structure. If Turkey lets everything, can you mention of a country named as Turkey? We are based on an imperial so we must be careful at these topics. But your question: No. Smile

Quote:just to clarify, personally i'm irreligious, so i don't give a flying shit about that, but there are many people, both christians and muslims that are still fanatics in europe and turkey. sad...

No problem my friend. Wink But unfortunately these fanatics are always triggered by someone.
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#7
i really didn't wanna go in such debt into this, but in any case the truth is that the European mentality and culture is way different than that of Turkish people, especially those who do not live in the metropolitan areas of West Turkey. Turkish people themselves are torn about joining the EU. And the EU itself should rather seek to build some cohesion between current members first and then look to expand further. And btw the USA are trying to inhibit a real political union with one government in Europe, cause it would be a new superpower, and the best way to do that is to promote Turkey's admition in the EU. The EU will never be politically united with Turkey being a member and I am just one of those people who wants the EU to be politically unified.
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#8
Yeah, I was the one who voted yes Tongue
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#9
(04-04-2010, 10:25 PM)rikhardur Wrote: Yeah, I was the one who voted yes Tongue

any reasoning or just how you feel about it?
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#10
(04-06-2010, 11:13 AM)suricata Wrote: any reasoning or just how you feel about it?

I didn't read the previous posts, but basically I disagree almost with every reason against that has been going on since the issue came up. Religion, geography, culture, etc, are all areas I think can be discussed to include Turkey in the EU. Throw your insights and I'll gladly reply Smile
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#11
(04-06-2010, 09:24 PM)rikhardur Wrote: I didn't read the previous posts, but basically I disagree almost with every reason against that has been going on since the issue came up. Religion, geography, culture, etc, are all areas I think can be discussed to include Turkey in the EU. Throw your insights and I'll gladly reply Smile

i have above Wink

about religion, culture etc, you don't have to take in mind your personal opinion, but rather the consensus in both europe and turkey. my main reasoning to be against it is, that it would lead to europe never being politically unified (which has been a dream of mine for many years) and that a fully militarized state would have the most votes in the euro-parliament.
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#12
(04-07-2010, 01:12 AM)suricata Wrote: i have above Wink

about religion, culture etc, you don't have to take in mind your personal opinion, but rather the consensus in both europe and turkey. my main reasoning to be against it is, that it would lead to europe never being politically unified (which has been a dream of mine for many years) and that a fully militarized state would have the most votes in the euro-parliament.

Do you think Europe will be politically unified with GB in it? Tongue You'd see that easily happening with Turkey than with GB.
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#13
(04-07-2010, 06:47 PM)rikhardur Wrote: Do you think Europe will be politically unified with GB in it? Tongue You'd see that easily happening with Turkey than with GB.

Laugh Laugh good point
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