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Scouting players - let's start something here
#1
Hi guys and girls,

I thought about it - all of us watch basketball all the time and know so many great players from all over the world.

Why won't we share our thoughts regarding the players we watch?

I would really love to see a thread that everyone will write his opinion about players he sees and likes and others can reply and share their thoughts.

I still can't decide if it should be open and everyone can write whatever he wants or we should create a "template" like: strength, weakness, what level is the player suitable for etc.

What do you think?
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#2
Hey, welcome to the forum. This might become a useful thread if we manage to post good scouting reports. Using a template seems to be a better option to me. You already suggested some categories for the template. Maybe you could post a full template? What about adding a evaluation of player's ability in certain category on a scale of 10?
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#3
(Jul 22, 2010, 9:42 am)Vilius Wrote: Hey, welcome to the forum. This might become a useful thread if we manage to post good scouting reports. Using a template seems to be a better option to me. You already suggested some categories for the template. Maybe you could post a full template? What about adding a evaluation of player's ability in certain category on a scale of 10?

This is a nice idea. Would add a lot of traffic and members here to the site. Draftexpress is HUGE, the biggest basketball site there is just because they do this (and Americans WORSHIP that site like the holy grail) even though to be perfectly honest their player scouting reports, evaluations, and rankings are extremely poor and amateurish at best. But everyone in the US just takes it as gospel because they don't know any better.

This site could actually give a much more accurate depiction if you could look at a plethora of opinions rather than just the one guy's blog at draftexpress, from a guy that clearly never even watched 90% of the guys play that he "scouts".

We should have thought of this earlier. We could add youtube clips as well, that's what inthegame does.
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#4
What about this template for a scouting report?

Name:
Date of birth:
Nationality (-ies):
Best position:
Other positions:
Strengths:
Weaknesses:
Potential (is he likely to improve and how much?):
Overall level (local, Eurocup, Euroleague etc.):
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#5
(Jul 23, 2010, 12:18 pm)Vilius Wrote: What about this template for a scouting report?

Name:
Date of birth:
Nationality (-ies):
Best position:
Other positions:
Strengths:
Weaknesses:
Potential (is he likely to improve and how much?):
Overall level (local, Eurocup, Euroleague etc.):

I like it. Maybe add vitals like height and/or weight. Maybe add something like a current status or level. For example, somethign that Draftexpress is absurd at is how they rank guys like Rubio the best player in Europe.

It's delusional. Something to differenitaite the actual current level of a player instead of his hype, or his prospects from NBA managers, etc.

So you know something like,

Rubio: probable up and coming future Euroleague star

Siskauskas: elite Euroleague superstar

Jasikevicius: wily veteran (once a European superstar, now a smart and wily veteran)

I don't know, something like that. I never see anything like that on any of the sites. Draftexpress is just pure fiction and hype directed towards NBA marketign and that's how they get all their money from hits. It's by design.

But an actual realist and accrate scouting blog would be much more interesting to real fans and I believe it would catch on.

For example, if you read the ACB forums you would notice that in truth the Spaniards have no idea about let's say a Greek player. Like I saw when Mavroeidis was signed no one in the ACB forums had even heard of him before.

Best thing would be for fans all around Europe to be able to check here and since it would be in English it would be the best. And a lot better than Draftexpress which is again just all NBA hype nonsense.

Like Draftexpress idea of a scouting report is "not athletic", "too slow" "typical European player". I see stuff liek that all the time when I notice it they are talking about a player that is extremely quick and athletic.

Things like that they just make up and are pure bs.

I think something like more accurate and actual info would work better. Just like if you look at all the NBA US sites EVERY one is the same......

I swear read them. When Mozgov signed they all said "best player in Europe". Same when Pekovic signed, same when Asik signed, when Neal signed, when Erden signed, etc.

Yep, EVERY player in Europe that signs to the NBA is "the best player in Europe" according to NBA sites. Or how EVERY NBA draft pick from Europe is a "dominant superstar" according to them.

I mean they ALL claim Ryan Richards is a "superstar in Europe". Ryan Richards from the Swiss league.

The stuff is so absurd and comical. There isn't an actual true legit scouting site anywhere.

For example the ACB fans could look up Mavroeidis' profile and maybe see something realistic and informative. Maybe read several different opinions.

Not just like Draftexpress where one's guys opinion is considered universal fact. I don't think Americans can even grasp that it's just a guy's personal blog.
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#6
Great idea guys !

As soon as you create that template I will start posting interesting stuff mainly about Serbian youth prospects.

I hope this thread will shortly become very popular and that you will find a way to exchange usefull stuff with the main TB site.
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#7
If there are no objections we can start with the template that I posted above.

Name:
Date of birth:
Height:
Weight:
Nationality (-ies):
Best position:
Other positions:
Strengths:
Weaknesses:
Potential (is he likely to improve and how much?):
Overall level (local, Eurocup, Euroleague etc.):

Let's see how it goes. If we decide to make some changes, we can always edit previous reports.

Once we have enough reports in this thread, a whole new section on the main site can be created and all of the reports will be posted there as well.
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#8
(Jul 23, 2010, 1:55 pm)lord_slawe_ Wrote: Great idea guys !

As soon as you create that template I will start posting interesting stuff mainly about Serbian youth prospects.

I hope this thread will shortly become very popular and that you will find a way to exchange usefull stuff with the main TB site.

That would be great man.
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#9
(Jul 23, 2010, 3:17 pm)Vilius Wrote: If there are no objections we can start with the template that I posted above.

Name:
Date of birth:
Height:
Weight:
Nationality (-ies):
Best position:
Other positions:
Strengths:
Weaknesses:
Potential (is he likely to improve and how much?):
Overall level (local, Eurocup, Euroleague etc.):

Let's see how it goes. If we decide to make some changes, we can always edit previous reports.

Once we have enough reports in this thread, a whole new section on the main site can be created and all of the reports will be posted there as well.

I think it's a good start. What about something though like for example "intangibles". I mean I can say well Georgios Diamantopoulos "elite level scoring talent, can score at will if he wants, etc."

But that does not account for also being a lazy and careless player as well. Some players have poor attitude. Some guys are team players, some guys have heart, some are smart, some are stupid. Some guys are winners, some are losers.

Some guys don't like to follow coaches orders, etc. I think something like "intangibles" section also should be there. How do you write up a prime Saras for example? Physically poor and skill wise not the best either. But just more intense and smarter than everyone else.

But you can't really describe that when you just talk about weaknesses and strengths in the playing ability.
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#10
That's a good point.

Name:
Date of birth:
Height:
Weight:
Nationality (-ies):
Best position:
Other positions:
Strengths:
Weaknesses:
Intangibles:
Potential (is he likely to improve and how much?):
Overall level (local, Eurocup, Euroleague etc.):
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#11
Thanks guys - glad that you like the idea.

Also thanks for the warm welcome - hope I can contribute here.

Now let's hope all users can join in and write scout reports.

I'll write one today/tomorrow.

Let's use the suggested template - it is good and we'll change if anyone offers.

Well...Good luck to the European basketball community ot Talkbasket!
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#12
Name: Danilo Pinnock

Date of birth: 11/12/1983

Height:195

Weight: ? (actually I'm not sure we should have this since players can change that criteria...)

Nationality (-ies): USA , Panama (NT)

Best position: 3

Other positions: big 2 or small lineup 4

Strengths: A great offensive player - has the ability to shoot from everywhere in the court

both off the dribble and catch&shoot - also has quick release.

Knows how to put the ball on the floor and take his man in one on one.

He is great when penetrating and stoping for a quick mid-range jumper which he finishes in high percentage.

Can penetrate to both sides.

Weaknesses: Tends to turn the ball over too much - especially when penetrating into the defense and not reading the play.

Can force shots.

Intangibles: Plays with passion on both sides on the floor even when things go bad.

Wants to be the leader of the team and takes responsiblity in "money time"

Must play in a high paced team since he is an open floor, run&gun player.

Potential (is he likely to improve and how much?): Can play in a 1st tier league in any European league.

Overall level (local, Eurocup, Euroleague etc.): I tend to believe he can do some nice things in a Euroleague team...



Your thoughs?
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#13
Name: Nemanja Nedovic

Club: Crvena Zvezda (Red Star)

Date of birth: 6.May 1991

Height: 190

Weight: unknown

Nationality (-ies): Serbian

Best position: Point Guard

Other positions: can be used on the SG position

Strengths: Excelent ball-handling skills, safe with the ball, good organizing skills, likes to make the assist rather then to take the shot, good penetration and lay-up vision, good scoring ability.

Weaknesses: Tends to make turnovers in crucial moments of the game, not taking his chances, taking some unnecesary crazy shots, tends to "let-off" if the game is already over.

Intangibles: Steping up to the court with confidence. Not respecting autorithies either off and on the pitch.

Potential (is he likely to improve and how much?): Huge. Has to work (a lot) on pshychological side of the game. Can improve on every aspect since he has good athletics and understands the game.

Overall level (local, Eurocup, Euroleague etc.): So far at local level but in a year or two he can improve to Eurocup level. Further more, there are expectations from him to become one of the contenders for the National team and certanly he can play at Euroleague level.
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#14
(Jul 23, 2010, 3:47 pm)Vilius Wrote: That's a good point.

Name:
Date of birth:
Height:
Weight:
Nationality (-ies):
Best position:
Other positions:
Strengths:
Weaknesses:
Intangibles:
Potential (is he likely to improve and how much?):
Overall level (local, Eurocup, Euroleague etc.):

How about also including wingspan and lateral jumping? Also a "style similarity" to compare to an existing or retired well-known player. Also a youtube mix video. If we can gather enough reports here we can take them to the main site as well.
Respect and thanks for everything:

Alvertis, Bodiroga, Jasikevicius, Radja, Wilkins, Vrankovic, Fotsis, Rebraca, Kattash, Gentile, Koch, Middleton, Kutluay, Rogers, Papadopoulos, Becirovic, Tomasevic, Siskauskas, Pekovic, Lakovic, Vujanic, Chatzivrettas, Maljkovic, Spanoulis and many more to follow in the near future.
[Image: vspa.jpg]

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#15
(Jul 25, 2010, 10:56 pm)Black Urum Wrote: How about also including wingspan and lateral jumping? Also a "style similarity" to compare to an existing or retired well-known player. Also a youtube mix video. If we can gather enough reports here we can take them to the main site as well.

Good ideas. But unfortunately very rarely do we get wingspan and jumping ability of European players.
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#16
(Jul 26, 2010, 3:18 pm)forum troll Wrote: Good ideas. But unfortunately very rarely do we get wingspan and jumping ability of European players.

.. on the other hand, "style similarity" would be a good thing to add. I Football Manager game in some versions of it players info pages had that option, like "dubbed as new Ronaldo", "Touted as the next Cristian Vieri" or "Could be next Kaka". I always bought that players, I didn't ask what is the price Biggrin
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#17
Name: Stephane Lasme

Date of birth: 1982

Height:201

Nationality (-ies): Gabon

Best position: 4

Other positions: none

Strengths: Great defensive player - knows how to play defense on and off the ball.

Good shot block ability. A very good athlete. Doesn't force himself on the game - knows his place in the team.

Weaknesses: Very limited on offense relying mainly on his athletic ability - making baskets near the rim from dishes or offensive rebounds. Has developed the ability to make some mid-range shots but still not consistent enough.

Intangibles: nothing special...

Potential (is he likely to improve and how much?): Seems he won't improve from now. What you see is what you get.

Overall level (local, Eurocup, Euroleague etc.): A roster player in Euroleague team.
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#18
Name: Nemanja Bjelica

Date of birth: May 9, 1988

Height: 210

Weight:

Nationality (-ies): Serbian

Best position: Small Forward

Other positions: Playmaker, can be used succesfully on SG and SF position when needed

Strengths: Incredible technique for a tall player, excelent passing skills, the fact that he can cover any position on the floor

Weaknesses: A bit slow, tends to penetrate inside and make turnover, inconsistent shooter

Intangibles: nothing special for now

Style similiarity: Toni Kukoc, Dejan Bodiroga

Potential (is he likely to improve and how much?): One of the best in the Europe. He can improve significantly since he is full package player - body, technique, inteligence. Will improve as a shooter pretty quickly and must work on his defence.

Overall level (local, Eurocup, Euroleague etc.): Euroleague level player with potential to play in the NBA if he develops in the right way.
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#19
I've decided to make a shot on Lithuanian PG - Žydrūnas Kelys. Most of international fans, I suppose, haven't seen him yet and he's about to play in Euroleague with Rytas next season.

Name: Žydrūnas Kelys

Date of birth: 1987 04

Height: 188

Weight: 65 kilos

Nationality (-ies Lithuanian

Best position: Point guard

Other positions: Shooting guard (combo guard)

Strengths: Very fast and highly coordinated player with sharply expressed offensive mind. A good slasher and a decent shooter, can nail a difficult shot. Solid passer, doesn't mind to play one on one.

Weaknesses: Needs to get some weight to get strength, tends to make insecure passes- do not treasure the ball, tends to get him self into difficult situations, needs to improve decision making and ball handling abilities.

Intangibles: He has balls and he proved that playing against top teams of LKL. His favorite player is Šaras Biggrin

Potential (is he likely to improve and how much?): He improved last year a lot, so being 23 he has a lot of room to improve yet. In worst scenario I see him a role bench player in Euroleague/Eurocup average team, but he has the potential to become a top class point guard in two more upcoming years (the best scenario).

Overall level (local, Eurocup, Euroleague etc.): Euroleague.
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#20
wow... the "65 kilos" is shocking for such a height...
Respect and thanks for everything:

Alvertis, Bodiroga, Jasikevicius, Radja, Wilkins, Vrankovic, Fotsis, Rebraca, Kattash, Gentile, Koch, Middleton, Kutluay, Rogers, Papadopoulos, Becirovic, Tomasevic, Siskauskas, Pekovic, Lakovic, Vujanic, Chatzivrettas, Maljkovic, Spanoulis and many more to follow in the near future.
[Image: vspa.jpg]

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