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Poll: Who goes to FINAL?
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USA all the way baby!
22.22%
2 22.22%
Trys milijonai!
77.78%
7 77.78%
Total 9 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Semi final: USA-Lithuania
#21
Quote:In Athens 2004 the American basketball NT and the best American sprinters were "hiding" in the American military base of Souda (in Crete island) where civilians are not allowed, not to even talk about non-American civilians.

So although WADA doctors flew there they were not allowed entrance and those athletes were never tested.

I bet there were no sanctions taken against those athletes? They should have been disqualified instantly.
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#22
Quote:I bet there were no sanctions taken against those athletes? They should have been disqualified instantly.

Of course not.

Two Greek sprinters who were favourite for the gold medals and only one who could be a threat to Americans were also dirty and staged a motorcycle accident to avoid a doping test.

As a result they were never tested, never found positive on anything, they got banned for life.

While the Americans were not touched.
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#23
Quote:In Athens 2004 the American basketball NT and the best American sprinters were "hiding" in the American military base of Souda (in Crete island) where civilians are not allowed, not to even talk about non-American civilians.

So although WADA doctors flew there they were not allowed entrance and those athletes were never tested.

Really?

I was never aware of the incident. I was in the UK at the time, and I guess it slipped me noticing.

And yeah I posted that interesting info about doping and the NBA, and I'm not at all convinced that the US team gets screened properly for all banned substances like everyone else. How is it that the US always has 'superior atheltic abilities' compared to everyone else from every other country? It's not only the US who can train athletes for sports to the highest level possible. Why is it all other countries' athletes look well exercised in a normal range, and Americans always look above this normal range?

It can't be said that there isn't something highly suspicious going on here Blink
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#24
Quote:This is sampled from an article found at the following site: http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/la...wsid=43765

"The organisation has carried out 48 random tests in the first two days of the 2010 FIBA World Championship, testing two players from each of the competing 24 teams. It is planning to carry out at least another 60, meaning more than 100 will be carried out across the 80 games of the tournament."

" "We hope that we can banish the myth that some teams are not tested. Everybody is treated exactly the same and there are no exceptions." "

As for the Marion Jones comment, she has been thrown in jail and stripped of all of her medals for the PEDs she used in 2000. PEDs are detested by the American Public to the point of Congressional hearings and perjury charges. All of our athletes are tested, including basketball players. You're just making up excuses at why we are continually the best at something we invented and gave to the world.

As for the comment about Team USA not even making the Quarterfinals without Durant. Is that supposed to be an insult? "If they didn't have what they have, then they wouldn't be where they are!" Ooooooo, That's a good one. Now where exactly would the vaunted Spain, Serbia and Greece squads be without the 12 players they sent to the Olympics or FIBAeuro? Yeah, that's what I thought. Kevin Durant is awesome, no doubt, but he is just one of our pieces. There was a comment made about US playing in the junior varsity bracket, well that would be fitting considering this is our junior varsity squad.

US players are NOT tested by the main doping control. Only by the NBA owned company. This is a fact. FYI at the 2004 Olympics the testers were barred from even testing the US players.
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#25
Quote:Yeah and half of the fouls were clean steals (i.e. Durant's 7'5" wing spand plucking the Lietuva guard and getting called). The officials for FIBA suck. They're all from different countries, they have no consistency and they interpret rules differently. It's part of the deal when it comes to International tournaments. It's the same for everybody.

Those are fouls. The refs clearly give the USA biased help. Without those clear fouls being allowed the US does not get past Russia. The fact that Americans refuse to admit this is just par for the course. But it does not change the fact of the reality that it is true.
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#26
Quote:Really?

I was never aware of the incident. I was in the UK at the time, and I guess it slipped me noticing.

And yeah I posted that interesting info about doping and the NBA, and I'm not at all convinced that the US team gets screened properly for all banned substances like everyone else. How is it that the US always has 'superior atheltic abilities' compared to everyone else from every other country? It's not only the US who can train athletes for sports to the highest level possible. Why is it all other countries' athletes look well exercised in a normal range, and Americans always look above this normal range?

It can't be said that there isn't something highly suspicious going on here Blink

The NBA does not care even if you use anabolic steroids. This has been proven already by the case of Juan Dixon. He was caught doping in Europe, using anabolic steroids. This was reported in Europe and he was banned.

In US media they reported it as, "an over the counter supplement".

On top of that, the tests revealed that he would have been using the steroids while he was playing in the NBA, DURING the time when he was tested by the NBA just 2 months earlier.

So there is already officially proof that the NBA allows even anabolic steroid use. In the entire US media this Juan Dixon incident has never even been discussed, nor mentioned. They just had ESPN claim after the story in Europe that "it was a mistake from a false positive from an over the counter supplement. He will be re-instated within a week".

Of course he was banned and the WADA said it was anabolic steroids. Did the US media ever mention it again? No. Did ESPN ever retract or fix their original article about it, which was a lie? No.

This says it all 100% to whether or not NBA players are doping. It's quite insulting IMHO that Americans still act so arrogant and talk so much trash whenever someone mentions that NBA players dope. Everyone knows they dope. So Americans need to really stop attacking people when they mention it.

It's ridiculous. The same people swore that no baseball players doped for YEARS. The thing is though, the NBA is going to get caught and Stern will be kicked out. It is only a matter of time, especially with how arrogant they are getting with Team USA, where you could tell the last 2 US teams were clearly roided up.

The NBA and USA Basketball is pushing it too far. Even all the money they spend in FIBA and the Olympics committee to keep it covered up has its limits. You know that every other country is getting tired of this.
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#27
Quote:Those are fouls. The refs clearly give the USA biased help. Without those clear fouls being allowed the US does not get past Russia. The fact that Americans refuse to admit this is just par for the course. But it does not change the fact of the reality that it is true.

Drink some more hater-aide, you sound thirsty.
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#28
Quote:It's ridiculous. The same people swore that no baseball players doped for YEARS. The thing is though, the NBA is going to get caught and Stern will be kicked out. It is only a matter of time, especially with how arrogant they are getting with Team USA, where you could tell the last 2 US teams were clearly roided up.

You're a moron. USA, World Champs 2010, suck on it and like it.
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#29
^ Your bitchy replies don't make you stand in any better light either.

Did you read what I posted before about anti-doping policy in the NBA?
[Image: paok0bw.gif]
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#30
Quote:^ Your bitchy replies don't make you stand in any better light either.

Did you read what I posted before about anti-doping policy in the NBA?

Oh yeah, MY bitchy posts.......says the conspiracy theorist who's grasping at straws to find out a reason why a country with 300 million people and a basketball hoop on every corner produces the best players in the world.
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#31
Stop posting excuses and address the information about NBA anti-doping policy I made public on the previous page.
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#32
Quote:Really?

I was never aware of the incident. I was in the UK at the time, and I guess it slipped me noticing.

And yeah I posted that interesting info about doping and the NBA, and I'm not at all convinced that the US team gets screened properly for all banned substances like everyone else. How is it that the US always has 'superior atheltic abilities' compared to everyone else from every other country? It's not only the US who can train athletes for sports to the highest level possible. Why is it all other countries' athletes look well exercised in a normal range, and Americans always look above this normal range?

It can't be said that there isn't something highly suspicious going on here Blink

Guys I have no doubt that some Athletes are using drugs. Being an American athlete on a small scale I've witnessed steroid abuse. I know enough to suspect drug use in top tier athletes too. I also believe the NBA will have a scandal on its hand at some point. BUT and this is important the USA is not a 'normal' country when it comes to producing Athletes and 'uniquely special' Athletes. I think maybe some of you may be ignorant of how deep American Basketball infrastructure is. I'm not talking about the NBA. NBA is only the very tip of mountain of basketball structure that reaches down to a grass roots level. I say this humbly and not to be disrespectful BUT its obvious that you guys are underestimating USA basketball culture. You asked: How is it that the US always has 'superior atheltic abilities' compared to everyone else from every other country? You asked Here are some questions and things to think about.

The reason US produces these athletes with superior abilities is because the US looks for these athletes where other countries with less infrastructure miss them. Also USA has a greater population therefore a greater pool of athletes. these two factors are very important. Social scientist have overwhelmingly come to the conclusion that where and when you are born is important to what you accomplish in life. Europe also produces special athletes just not at the same volume as USA because those athletes don't play basketball.

Arvydas Sabonis born Lietuva in 1964 is someone with special ability. He may be the greatest center of all time. At 221cm/7'3" he possed amazing skill mixed with athletic abilty. BUT What if the great Sabas was born in Manchester, England in 1964? If he is raised in England,Would he have been the greatest center of all time? My answer is NO. I can tell you this if Sabonis is born in the USA he still becomes a great center. What do you think?

Dirk Nowitzki born in Germany 1978.He is a player wit special ability. Here is something interesting that is often repeated by Dirk and the American press. Nowitzki comes from an athletic family: his mother Helga was a professional basketball player and his father Jörg-Werner was a handball player who represented Germany at the highest international level. Nowitzki was a very tall child; most of the time he stood above his peers by a foot or more. He initially played handball and tennis, but soon grew tired of being called a "freak" for his height and eventually turned to basketball. After joining the local DJK Würzburg, the 15-year-old attracted the attention of former German international basketball player Holger Geschwindner, who spotted his talent immediately and offered to coach him individually two to three times per week. Handball?? Really? Why wasn't Basketball his first option?? Dirk in an interview said that he was lucky to find basketball it wasnt his main interest. Germany almost missed out on one of the greatest players to play the game. It could have been Dirk Nowitski would be in the handball hall of fame. lol

Roger Federer, Rapheal Nadal: both these guys are about 185cm and are very athletic. I believe there particular skill sets would transfer to basketball very well. I could see these guys as great point guards. I honestly think these guys should have basketballs in their hands. I'm willing to bet that neither of these guys grew up in an environment where basketball was the 1st option at sports. In the case of Nadal his father was a football player. He never had a chance to be anything but a footballer or an tennis player. If he was born in USA he would have been exposed to basketball. He would have at least tried it.

I could go on and do a survey of European athletes that play various sports football, tennis, track and field etc. then pick the most exceptional then translate those skills to basketball. I hope you get the point. With the exception of Ex-Yugo and Lietuva Europe as a whole doesn't develop their athletes with special abilities to play basketball. I't seems the majority of exceptional European athletes play sports other than basketball. Seriously could you imagine Dirk playing international handball?

By contrast in the USA children with ability are spotted early on. Recognized by most people in their communities. Especially by scouts, coaches of various organizations. Lebron James, Kevin Durant and Kevin Garnett are examples of this. Their are kids that are 12 years old that have their name on some scouter's list because they may have the 'potential'. My younger brother was an exceptional talent for american football. A University coach came to his Jr high game to watch him and introduced himself to my parents. He gave my parents his business card and said that he heard her oldest son(me) was good at track and offered to set up a walk on tryout for the University track team. When my mom told him that i was more interested in Physics. The coach said he would see what he could do. The next Monday we received a call from the University Physics department as well as the track coach. Why did he do this? Because he thought my brother had potential and he figured if his older brother went to his University then he would have a chance at my brother. My brother was only 15 at the time! Its like this everywhere in the USA with all the major sports. Many people in the US have known about Lebron since he was 15. If you have talent and ability in the USA someone will find you.

This is a question you should ask. How is it that the Ex-Yugo and Lietuva always has 'superior atheltic abilities' compared to everyone else from every other country in Europe? It's not only the Ex-Yugo and Lietuva who can train athletes for sports to the highest level possible. To me its not suspicious it's culture. USA has a deeper basketball culture than any other country. obviously Ex-Yugo and Lietuva have great culture too.
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#33
^ A very comprehensive post indeed, and I agree with what you say, the infrastructure of support for athletes is massive, and of course only really possible with adequate capital being available to keep these things running. It's all well and good, and the US is an example for many to watch and learn from, however talking specifically about the NBA and the players it produces I'm talking about doping in US basketball where a massive range of substances aren't banned at all, (except for steroids- but they're an archaic method anyway) but in the rest of the world they are.

What assurance do people (non-US) who watch international sports events have that if a US team is competing, that it does not receive sports performance-enhancing substances? Many a time in the past it's happened that US super athletes were found to be taking banned substances.

So this is the big question, where USA has undeniable and unparalleled prowess and skill in basketball, why should performance-enhancing drugs be part of the equation? And I'm referring to this in regards to NBA players competing at an international level.
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#34
Zeus my friend you are correct! I agree 100% testing should be the same. Also yes the USA benefits from money but many less wealthy countries do well with less money and more interest in sports. Look at South American countries in Soccer football and Basketball. Look at Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, Paraguay. All formidable and accomplished in international sports. Even in North America we have Mexico in Soccer and Puerto Rico in basketball. Many of these countries have less money than most European counties but the are accomplished in FIFA and FIBA. The difference is the interest and heart for the game. About Puerto Rico if Carmelo Anthony plays for their NT look for them to cause some upsets.
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#35
I think Mexico and Puerto Rico would fall into Mesoamerica, not North America.
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Alvertis, Bodiroga, Jasikevicius, Radja, Wilkins, Vrankovic, Fotsis, Rebraca, Kattash, Gentile, Koch, Middleton, Kutluay, Rogers, Papadopoulos, Becirovic, Tomasevic, Siskauskas, Pekovic, Lakovic, Vujanic, Chatzivrettas, Maljkovic, Spanoulis and many more to follow in the near future.
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#36
Nope Black I had this discussion with someone else on this forum. People from Europe think all there are no Spanish countries in North America. North America consist of Canada, USA, Mexico. These are the 3 major countries in our continent. Also some of the islands but not all are in North America. Puerto Rico is actually in the Caribbean, Antilles. Puerto Rico may possibly become the 51st state in our union. Puerto Ricans are citizens of USA. They have full rights as USA citizens. So anyone in Puerto Rico is born with dual citizenship. Also Mexico, Canada, USA are part of the infamous NAFTA (North American trade agreement). You might be surprised to find how many American basketball players are actually from the islands and have dual citizenship. Patrick Ewing, Carmelo Anthony, Tim Duncan all have island roots.
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#37
Quote:Zeus my friend you are correct! I agree 100% testing should be the same. Also yes the USA benefits from money but many less wealthy countries do well with less money and more interest in sports. Look at South American countries in Soccer football and Basketball. Look at Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, Paraguay. All formidable and accomplished in international sports. Even in North America we have Mexico in Soccer and Puerto Rico in basketball. Many of these countries have less money than most European counties but the are accomplished in FIFA and FIBA. The difference is the interest and heart for the game. About Puerto Rico if Carmelo Anthony plays for their NT look for them to cause some upsets.

Of course interest in the sport is important for any country to do well in international competition, there's no denying that. I still think doping is also a considerable issue for the US, the physical attributes of the players are WAY past those of men of ANY other national team!!! When the difference is that much, like I've mentioned before about Iguodala having a triceps the size of my fist (the length between the tip of my middle finger to the wrist is 21 cm), basketball athlete CANNOT get so big! A natural bodybuilder sure. There's only so much that honest training can do to improve an athlete physically before 'enhancements' come into play.
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#38
Quote:Of course interest in the sport is important for any country to do well in international competition, there's no denying that. I still think doping is also a considerable issue for the US, the physical attributes of the players are WAY past those of men of ANY other national team!!! When the difference is that much, like I've mentioned before about Iguodala having a triceps the size of my fist (the length between the tip of my middle finger to the wrist is 21 cm), basketball athlete CANNOT get so big! A natural bodybuilder sure. There's only so much that honest training can do to improve an athlete physically before 'enhancements' come into play.

Zeus I think its important to remember that what is "Natural" for one state is not natural for every state. Still I agree with you for the most part especially with Iggy. His arms a just incredible I've never seen anything like it on someone his size. For example & 7ft sure but his seem out of proportion wit his body... Oh and watching him this year in NBA his arms have become smaller. weird..

I'd like to see the difference between USA weight training, conditioning, dieting compared to the rest of the world. I wonder if other countries hit the gym as hard. It seems like there exist a different philosophy between European athletes I've encountered at University level and American athletes. I have heard of some Europeans that refuse to to weight train. As far as basketball bodies I just watched USA vs Lietuva game today. With a few exceptions I don't see too much of a difference. Lithuanians had strong bodies. They have Muscles, speed,elevation. Turkey was the same way. many times USA seemed smaller in the front court when compared to Turkey and Lietuva. Look at Robertas Javtokas, Lineas Lieza for Lietuva. Robertas is beastly. I was impressed with many of the bodies out there. Lietuva, Turkey, Argentina, Brazil all had good bodies. Spain didn't have the bulk BUT the have killer athleticism. Spain just seems like they may be one of the most athletic teams in Europe right now.
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#39
Quote:Zeus I think its important to remember that what is "Natural" for one state is not natural for every state. Still I agree with you for the most part especially with Iggy. His arms a just incredible I've never seen anything like it on someone his size. For example & 7ft sure but his seem out of proportion wit his body... Oh and watching him this year in NBA his arms have become smaller. weird..

I'd like to see the difference between USA weight training, conditioning, dieting compared to the rest of the world. I wonder if other countries hit the gym as hard. It seems like there exist a different philosophy between European athletes I've encountered at University level and American athletes. I have heard of some Europeans that refuse to to weight train. As far as basketball bodies I just watched USA vs Lietuva game today. With a few exceptions I don't see too much of a difference. Lithuanians had strong bodies. They have Muscles, speed,elevation. Turkey was the same way. many times USA seemed smaller in the front court when compared to Turkey and Lietuva. Look at Robertas Javtokas, Lineas Lieza for Lietuva. Robertas is beastly. I was impressed with many of the bodies out there. Lietuva, Turkey, Argentina, Brazil all had good bodies. Spain didn't have the bulk BUT the have killer athleticism. Spain just seems like they may be one of the most athletic teams in Europe right now.

That is some serious beci...(ups, no conception for this forum yet) MISTAKE! Specially having in mind he's the best known player in Lithuania roster Smile

USA had no dominant centers in WC, that's way Javtokas did some real harm for USA. Powerhouses of Europe can compete with USA athleticism, but still are far behind in this particular matter.
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#40
Becirovism is a global concept...
Respect and thanks for everything:

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