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Pre-Olympic tournament 2012
#21
[quote name='TeoTheGreek13' timestamp='1316999537' post='34902']



***Skangles, the fact that Kleiza is a great player and the best of your team don't make him a leader! <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' /> He's not a leader and he'll never be one. <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/baby.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Baby' />


[/quote]



Like I said he was the undeniable heart and soul of the 2010 team, the player who the rest of the team rallied behind. It was good enough for Bronze, which in my opinion is a pretty decent track record.
Reply
#22
[quote name='TeoTheGreek13' timestamp='1316999537' post='34902']



***Skangles, the fact that Kleiza is a great player and the best of your team don't make him a leader! <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' /> He's not a leader and he'll never be one. <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/baby.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Baby' />


[/quote]



Sure he won't. The player that is averaging 20 points and 7 rebounds for a powerhouse is not nearly a leader...Such players are irritating.
Reply
#23
[quote name='skangles' timestamp='1317002505' post='34904']

Based on what?!? The fact that he has a damaged knee and couldn't play in Eurobasket? He was unbelievable in the World Championship, albeit he had an off game against the US. A lot of the credit needs to go to the US who executed their strategy effectively and the flip side is that players have bad games. On the same note, when Kleiza was shut down no other Lithuanian players stepped up to fill the void. So I am very curious, when exactly the irritable Kleiza has destroyed a game for Lithuania that the rest of the team was building the whole game?



Maybe Kleiza had a FYROM-esque World Championship and won't be able to compete at that level in the future. Maybe, he won't be the same player after a serious knee surgery and a without playing for a year. Nevertheless, the comment above does not seem to be based on any sort of evidence or reality whatsoever.

[/quote]

I'm talking based on what I had seen for one year when he was playing for Olympiacos. <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bag.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Bag' />
[Image: panathinaikos-basket-opadoi.jpg]
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#24
@skangles & straight forward

Don't quote me numbers.

Numbers make great players, not leaders.



Get over it! <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bag.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Bag' />
[Image: panathinaikos-basket-opadoi.jpg]
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#25
For Hellas there's NO team in that tournament to fear. We will be prepared, and will comfortably qualify to the next stage. Words are cheap, actions speak louder than words. On any given day, any decent player can excel!! So throw all the stats in the backburner.



@Zeus.. I want Vasileiadis in the NT.. As for Sofo we'll see. I'm not too keen on him as of lately, especially his mental attitude.. Time will tell though!! <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Biggrin' />
Reply
#26
[quote name='straight forward' timestamp='1316984521' post='34862']

You might have some points about your 3. Overall it's not a bad bunch, a little bit inconsistent, but not bad at all. As for Mačiulis, my point was that none of them could match Mačiulis physicality, energy and temper. Not even Vasilopoulus who is not a bad defender off course.



As for Kleiza being just a great scorer...That's not true. He is so talented scorer that people maybe fail to see that he's one step further in rebounds than most of his competitors. Kleiza can be a tough defender and great rebounder. I can't follow how Fotsis is better rebounder? Even the stats do not show he's better than Kleiza (6,5 rebounds in 09/10 Euroleague's season while Fotsis 5.5). However, I can't see how we can compare Kleiza and Fotsis here, Kleiza is way superior player and that's end of the story. I'm pretty strict here.



Overall, the tournament will clear thing out, you right about that <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />

[/quote]





Seriously dude, why are you quoting stats for? In any match, in any place and tournament, at any given time, they don't mean Jack Shit. Especially at this level!! Your best player can play the most pathetic game, and your worst player can be a match winner. Hellas will be ready 'straight forward' with ALL positions, and covered twice over. You can bet your bottom dollar on that. As far as SG's are concerned, we have the appropriate players that are very capable of completing that task.



What if Linas Kleiza or Jonas Mačiulis DO NOT play well? What then? Basketball isn't about 'A' player, but a whole team of players that coordinate and align with one another. Like I've said before, we'll see you in London dude!! <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Laugh' />
Reply
#27
[quote name='Fivepack' timestamp='1317108821' post='34938']

Seriously dude, why are you quoting stats for? In any match, in any place and tournament, at any given time, they don't mean Jack Shit. Especially at this level!! Your best player can play the most pathetic game, and your worst player can be a match winner. Hellas will be ready 'straight forward' with ALL positions, and covered twice over. You can bet your bottom dollar on that. As far as SG's are concerned, we have the appropriate players that are very capable of completing that task.



What if Linas Kleiza or Jonas Mačiulis DO NOT play well? What then? Basketball isn't about 'A' player, but a whole team of players that coordinate and align with one another. Like I've said before, we'll see you in London dude!! <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Laugh' />

[/quote]



Stats is not everything, no question. But to say stats mean nothing also is a complete mistake. However, I found some Europeans fans using this "anti-stats" argument as an excuse for their liked players too often.



More over, one very talented player Karnišovas said - consistency is pro level. Good player should deliver everyday and they do with some rare exceptions.
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#28
^ Who could forget ol' Arturas? <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Biggrin' />



So apparentely the pre-Olympic tournament is going to cost 3.5 million EUR (!!!!!!!!!) for whichever country wants to host it (from those in the run for qualifying into the Olympics). I'm really curious as to the cost breakdown why FIBA wants all this money for <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crazy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Crazy' />
[Image: paok0bw.gif]
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#29
[quote name='ZEUS' timestamp='1318149668' post='35376']

^ Who could forget ol' Arturas? <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Biggrin' />



So apparentely the pre-Olympic tournament is going to cost 3.5 million EUR (!!!!!!!!!) for whichever country wants to host it (from those in the run for qualifying into the Olympics). I'm really curious as to the cost breakdown why FIBA wants all this money for <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crazy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Crazy' />

[/quote]



I think FIBA would spend the 3.5 million euros on the following:



<img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/russian_roulette.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Russian_roulette' /> <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/beach.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Beach' /> <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/big_boss.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big_boss' /> <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bicycle.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Bicycle' /> <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ghelyon.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Ghelyon' /> <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drag.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Drag' /> <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/to_become_senile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='To_become_senile' /> <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/jester.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Jester' /> <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Cheers' /> <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/king2.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='King2' />
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#30
I mean, some 'tax' should be involved in paying FIBA to keep it running obviously, but into the millions? Please. Other than that what's got to be paid for? NT's pay their players, organizing country pays for court costs and those who work in it, but I'd be surprised if the real amount of money this requires even comes to 100K in the real world.



This is what happens when you let refs take over the governing of sports <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mellow.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Mellow' />
[Image: paok0bw.gif]
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#31
So it will come down to the following four host countries bid to host the tournament.



Option 1: Lithuania



Positives: This is the safest choice for FIBA. Lithuania just organized Eurobasket and are a basketball crazy nation. They also have the added benefit of being European so it is relatively easy for fans from 1/3 of the participating countries to show up and support their country. I think that this would be the most profitable option for FIBA. Additionally, Lithuania has two world class venue options in Siemens Arena (capacity 11,000) and Zalgiris Arena (capacity 15,400).



Negatives: Lithuania just hosted a major tournament so FIBA may want to mix it up and FIBA wouldn't be expanding their product to a new fanbase as the Lithuanian market is already fully saturated.





Option 2: Angola



Positives: Angola is by far the most successful African nation and have hosted the African Championship in 2007, 1999 and 1989. The main benefit is that having 11 world class basketball teams gives FIBA excellent exposure to grow interest in Africa. Angola is Lithuania's strongest competition for winning the rights to host this competition.



Negatives: The only downside is that the largest arena is the Pavilhao da Cidadela in Luanda (capacity 6,800). The short term profits won't rival what Lithaunia can offer but FIBA may be looking at the bigger picture in their selection criteria.





Option 3: FYROM



Positives: The main advantages are that like Lithuania, it is fairly easy for 1/3 of the teams' supporters to get down Skopje. With the success of the national team in Eurobasket, FIBA can capitalize on the new found enthusiasm for basketball and the Boris Trajkovski Sports Center is a modern venue.



Negatives: The Boris Trajkovski Sports Center has a capacity of only 8,000. With both Greece and FYROM playing in this tournament and given the close proximity of the two countries the prospect of trying to maintain order between thousands of Greek and FYROM fans could easily get out of hand for the organizers who have never hosted a major basketball event.





Option 4: Venezuela




Positives: Venezuela is desperate to host an international basketball tournament and like Angola it gives FIBA an opportunity to spread interest in the sport in a relatively untapped market. Additionally, the Poliedro de Caracas has a capacity of 13,000.



Negatives: Venezuela has never hosted a major basketball tournament. Their bid was selected to host the 2007 Tournament of the Americas but they neglected to pay the $1.5m fee and the tournament was eventually moved to Las Vegas. Additionally, high profile kidnappings are on the rise in Venezuela including Wilson Ramos of the Washington Nationals (Major League Baseball) which ended today in gunfire between authorities and his kidnappers.



Skangles' Prediction: I have my fingers crossed that FIBA will select Lithuania but I believe that they will choose Angola despite its small arena.
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#32
Good analysis, skangles. However, as I understood from some rumours it's between Macedonia and Lithuania (but who knows). I still can't decide if it's better for Liths to play at home or away (the latter thing seems better for me ATM).
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#33
[url="http://www.gazzetta.gr/kosmos/article/item/248137-lithouania-e-venezouela"]The pre-Olympic tournament will take place in Lithuania or in Venezuela!!![/url]



I really don't know what is better for Greece. <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Unsure' />



If the tournament take place in Lithuania(I don't see how Lithuania will be allowed to host a second FIBA tournament in 1 year) the possible disadvantage of Greece will be refs in a possible game between Lithuania and Greece(I wouldn't say that if I haven't seen the Eurobasket game between the two). On the other hand, this tournament taking place in Lithuania instead of Venezuela would be more relaxing for the players.



If the tournament take place in Venezouela it will be a problem for almost every team because they'll not only play all these games before the Olympics(ofcourse I'm talking about the teams that will finally qualify) but they'll have to make two long and tedious flights!



Ofcourse I won't really worry about all of this if we have our best players on the team!!! <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thup:' /> <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />

Except Diamantidis ofcourse. <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Sad' />
[Image: panathinaikos-basket-opadoi.jpg]
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#34
The Venezuela bid is fake... they just don't want to admit that Lithuania is the only one who want to host it. Everything has been decided, it will be in Lithuania.
Respect and thanks for everything:

Alvertis, Bodiroga, Jasikevicius, Radja, Wilkins, Vrankovic, Fotsis, Rebraca, Kattash, Gentile, Koch, Middleton, Kutluay, Rogers, Papadopoulos, Becirovic, Tomasevic, Siskauskas, Pekovic, Lakovic, Vujanic, Chatzivrettas, Maljkovic, Spanoulis and many more to follow in the near future.
[Image: vspa.jpg]

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#35
Yeah right, refs let Lithuania beat Greece in that game <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Tongue' /> Both teams played like complete shit and Greece was just a little bit shittier that game if it was worth calling a game. The last serious game Lithuania VS Greece was a small final of 2007 Eurobasket.



It has to be clear today I think.
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#36
[quote name='Black Urum' timestamp='1323435432' post='36655']

The Venezuela bid is fake... they just don't want to admit that Lithuania is the only one who want to host it. Everything has been decided, it will be in Lithuania.

[/quote]



Seems like exactly the opposite. At least some fresh rumours. Lrytas source saying that Lithuania has about 5% chances while FIBA wants to improve their influence if Asia or something.



Whatever I don't care.
Reply
#37
[quote name='straight forward' timestamp='1323520209' post='36665']

Yeah right, refs let Lithuania beat Greece in that game <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Tongue' /> Both teams played like complete shit and Greece was just a little bit shittier that game if it was worth calling a game. The last serious game Lithuania VS Greece was a small final of 2007 Eurobasket.



It has to be clear today I think.

[/quote]

I'm not talking about the game between Lithuania and Greece... <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/baby.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Baby' />
[Image: panathinaikos-basket-opadoi.jpg]
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#38
[url="http://www.sport.gr/default.asp?pid=4&aid=113551"]Venezuela will host the pre-Olympic tournament... Mr. Black Urum!!![/url] <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Tongue' /> <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />
[Image: panathinaikos-basket-opadoi.jpg]
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#39
[quote name='TeoTheGreek13' timestamp='1323548143' post='36674']

[url="http://www.sport.gr/default.asp?pid=4&aid=113551"]Venezuela will host the pre-Olympic tournament... Mr. Black Urum!!![/url] <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Tongue' /> <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />

[/quote]



Just wait until they neglect to pay their host fee. So who will be the first player kidnapped by Venezuelan criminals?
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#40
[quote name='skangles' timestamp='1323550009' post='36676']

Just wait until they neglect to pay their host fee. So who will be the first player kidnapped by Venezuelan criminals?

[/quote]

I believe it's extremely dangerous too.
[Image: panathinaikos-basket-opadoi.jpg]
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