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NBA lockout
#21
[quote name='MaccabiTA' timestamp='1322330287' post='36287']

They should just change the NBA regular season to 58 games, 29 home 29 away, make it more simple and shorter because right now it's ridiculously long and many teams know they have nothing to fight for long time before the season ends.

[/quote]



I like a shorter season too. Blake Griffin in an interview said he would like a shorter season of 50-60 games. His comments were interesting. I would like a 60 game season. Play conference/division 4 times and play inter-conference 1+.
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#22
I think Jonas Valanciunas is ready for NBA he should come over. I hope they buy his contract he will dominate! Also Kleiza and Jonas V on the same team!!! Sonny Weems, Demar DeRozan, Andrea Bargnani!! I don't know about defense but that is one hell of an offensive team!!
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#23
[quote name='Raze Lupin' timestamp='1322332479' post='36293']

I think Jonas Valanciunas is ready for NBA he should come over. I hope they buy his contract he will dominate! Also Kleiza and Jonas V on the same team!!! Sonny Weems, Demar DeRozan, Andrea Bargnani!! I don't know about defense but that is one hell of an offensive team!!

[/quote]

Weems stays in Kaunas... <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />
[Image: panathinaikos-basket-opadoi.jpg]
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#24
[quote name='TeoTheGreek13' timestamp='1322332756' post='36295']

Weems stays in Kaunas... <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />

[/quote]



I'm hoping they but his Z contract. I think the Euro players will dominate. They have been playing for weeks now.
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#25
[quote name='Raze Lupin' timestamp='1322333179' post='36296']

I'm hoping they but his Z contract. I think the Euro players will dominate. They have been playing for weeks now.

[/quote]



It won't happen, he was an unrestricted free agent. Zalgiris signed him to a 1-year deal without an NBA out clause. He can return to the NBA next year.



Same with Valanciunas. He had a multi-million dollar buyout this year, which is much less next year. Lietuvos Rytas would love for the Raptors to pick up his buyout but I'm not sure if the option still exists now that he is into the season with Rytas. In any event, it won't matter. Even if there wasn't a lockout Valanciunas was never coming over this season. I think it's better for his development to get another year under his belt. He'd just sit on the bench in Toronto.
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#26
[quote name='skangles' timestamp='1322334136' post='36299']

It won't happen, he was an unrestricted free agent. Zalgiris signed him to a 1-year deal without an NBA out clause. He can return to the NBA next year.



Same with Valanciunas. He had a multi-million dollar buyout this year, which is much less next year. Lietuvos Rytas would love for the Raptors to pick up his buyout but I'm not sure if the option still exists now that he is into the season with Rytas. In any event, it won't matter. Even if there wasn't a lockout Valanciunas was never coming over this season. I think it's better for his development to get another year under his belt. He'd just sit on the bench in Toronto.

[/quote]



I think both V and Monta are ready for NBA. JV will sit on the bench mostly for the first year regardless. Whats 3 mil to get a NBA ready center? Plus he can sit on the bench with big brother Linas. Work on his game with offensive game with Bargnani. I think a six month understudy would do him good. Whats he missing? I say red rover red rover send Valanciunas on over!!!
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#27
[quote name='Raze Lupin' timestamp='1322334844' post='36301']

I think both V and Monta are ready for NBA. JV will sit on the bench mostly for the first year regardless. Whats 3 mil to get a NBA ready center? Plus he can sit on the bench with big brother Linas. Work on his game with offensive game with Bargnani. I think a six month understudy would do him good. Whats he missing? I say red rover red rover send Valanciunas on over!!!

[/quote]



I don't see Valanciunas as being NBA ready at this point. I am very high on him as a talent and I think that he is going to have a fantastic career in the NBA but right now he needs to bulk up, play regularly and continue to expand his confidence. He only has the chance to bulk up in Toronto. I don't see him getting anything more than garbage minutes if he goes to the NBA right now.



His development definitely accelerated during the Eurobasket. It was a chance for him to shine in a controlled capacity. By playing regularly for a good team like Rytas against good competition like Zalgiris/VTB/Eurocup he puts himself in contention for an even larger role for Lietuva next summer whilst enhancing his mental toughness. If Lithuania qualifies for the Olympics and Valanciunas plays a role in their success he is going to go to Tornto flying high. That's the ideal situation for him, the Raptors and Lithuania. He is still only 19, there is no need to rush.
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#28
[quote name='Raze Lupin' timestamp='1322334844' post='36301']

I think both V and Monta are ready for NBA. JV will sit on the bench mostly for the first year regardless. Whats 3 mil to get a NBA ready center? Plus he can sit on the bench with big brother Linas. Work on his game with offensive game with Bargnani. I think a six month understudy would do him good. Whats he missing? I say red rover red rover send Valanciunas on over!!!

[/quote]



This is way Marcus Brown (now retired American player) come to Europe.And become Legend.He is All-time second scorer in Euroleague.(was first).



Point is that it's better to play in Europe and have 30 minutes of playing time with lower salary and space to become star,than be in NBA and be on bench with big salary <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />



Josh Childress is special case (with much bigger salary than in NBA and playing time).
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#29
[quote name='Raze Lupin' timestamp='1322334844' post='36301']

I think both V and Monta are ready for NBA. JV will sit on the bench mostly for the first year regardless. Whats 3 mil to get a NBA ready center? Plus he can sit on the bench with big brother Linas. Work on his game with offensive game with Bargnani. I think a six month understudy would do him good. Whats he missing? I say red rover red rover send Valanciunas on over!!!

[/quote]



Valančiūnas is not ready for NBA. He played against Gasols, Kirstič, Kaman, Ibaka and others in Eurobasket and he wasn't bad, but let's not forget he came with limited minutes and with Šaras assisting. Now playing in Rytas, the team that basically has no passers, it's obvious that he still has long way to go. Don't get me wrong, the potential is here, but the best way as skangles said is to stay in Europe. I would think he needs to stay in Europe in 2012/2013 season as well.



While Motiejūnas is pretty much ready and he's already 21yo, but now he's getting vital experience in Euroleague and VTB as the key player of Prokom. He's doing great and I think he will be ready for 2012/2013, though I would recommend him to stay and play in Euroleague next season as well.



In other words, I see NBA as big threat for Valančiūnas' and Motiejūnas' career ATM. Isn't like Rocket's 4 position is entirely locked currently? They would probably throw Motiejunas at 5 what would be a mistake.
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#30
[quote name='stefans' timestamp='1322352686' post='36309']

This is way Marcus Brown (now retired American player) come to Europe.And become Legend.He is All-time second scorer in Euroleague.(was first).



Point is that it's better to play in Europe and have 30 minutes of playing time with lower salary and space to become star,than be in NBA and be on bench with big salary <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />



Josh Childress is special case (with much bigger salary than in NBA and playing time).

[/quote]



I don't think that the Marcus Brown comparison works here. I remember watching Marcus Brown lead the Murray St. Racers back in the day and I was a huge fan. He pretty much scored at will in the Ohio Valley Conference. He was then drafted in the middle of the second round (after his Senior year aged 22) and second round players rarely last long in the NBA. He played a few seasons in the NBA and then came over to Europe to dominate. In my opinion Marcus Brown needed to be the leader on his team (and a great one he was) with the green light from the coach to score at will. He didn't have the opportunity to do either in the NBA and I therefore see Europe as far more conducive to Marcus' style of play. I just don't see his leaving the NBA at around 24-25 years old as a case of a young player who entered the league prematurely.



An extreme example of a young player rotting on an NBA bench is Darko Milicic. I don't think that Jonas Valanciunas is at risk of becoming Darko for a multitude of reasons, but Darko is the textbook example that young players should want to avoid. After the better portion of a decade Darko has proven that he is a good (not great) talent but it took forever for him to overcome the devastation that occurred in his first three years in Detroit.



Lessons Learned from Darko:


1) Darko had just turned 18 at the time of the NBA draft he was extremely young and raw both mentally and physically when entering the league

2) Darko was drafted number 2 in perhaps the best draft of all time, this put further pressure on him and inflated people's expectations (he was called the next Kevin Garnett).

3) The Detroit Pistons had just won 50 games, had the best record in the Eastern conference and made a trip to the Eastern Conference Finals. They were after an NBA title and the development of future talent was far from their priority.

4) The Pistons had a coach that didn't like playing rookies/young players.

5) The Pistons vastly overrated Milicic. I think his career could have looked much differently under other circumstances but I cannot imagine a situation where Darko would have been worthy of the #2 overall pick.



Darko was only 20 when he got dealt to Orlando but 2.5 years of not playing in Detroit absolutely killed his confidence.
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#31
[quote name='straight forward' timestamp='1322355317' post='36311']

Valančiūnas is not ready for NBA. He played against Gasols, Kirstič, Kaman, Ibaka and others in Eurobasket and he wasn't bad, but let's not forget he came with limited minutes and with Šaras assisting. Now playing in Rytas, the team that basically has no passers, it's obvious that he still has long way to go. Don't get me wrong, the potential is here, but the best way as skangles said is to stay in Europe. I would think he needs to stay in Europe in 2012/2013 season as well.



While Motiejūnas is pretty much ready and he's already 21yo, but now he's getting vital experience in Euroleague and VTB as the key player of Prokom. He's doing great and I think he will be ready for 2012/2013, though I would recommend him to stay and play in Euroleague next season as well.



In other words, I see NBA as big threat for Valančiūnas' and Motiejūnas' career ATM. Isn't like Rocket's 4 position is entirely locked currently? They would probably throw Motiejunas at 5 what would be a mistake.

[/quote]



Motiejūnas himself said that he's planning to become C in the future and not PF as he is right now.

He doesn't need to stay in Europe for a longer time..what do you expect from him, huh? He's already showing VERY solid results and if you look at him statistically, then I really doubt he would improve a lot on it, also I really doubt that stronger Euroleague teams would fight to get him. There's almost no options for him and he himself wishes to play in the NBA as soon as possible. He said NBA is his dream and I'm sure he even would give a lot more of an effort playing in the NBA then he does here.
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#32
[quote name='skangles' timestamp='1322359635' post='36314']





Lessons Learned from Darko:


1) Darko had just turned 18 at the time of the NBA draft he was extremely young and raw both mentally and physically when entering the league

2) Darko was drafted number 2 in perhaps the best draft of all time, this put further pressure on him and inflated people's expectations (he was called the next Kevin Garnett).

3) The Detroit Pistons had just won 50 games, had the best record in the Eastern conference and made a trip to the Eastern Conference Finals. They were after an NBA title and the development of future talent was far from their priority.

4) The Pistons had a coach that didn't like playing rookies/young players.

5) The Pistons vastly overrated Milicic. I think his career could have looked much differently under other circumstances but I cannot imagine a situation where Darko would have been worthy of the #2 overall pick.



Darko was only 20 when he got dealt to Orlando but 2.5 years of not playing in Detroit absolutely killed his confidence.

[/quote]



He was better ranked than Carmelo Anthony and Wade <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl3.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Rofl3' /> <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl3.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Rofl3' /> There was bunch of idiots who put him there <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bag.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Bag' />



For me he is not even good for leagues in Europe.And he has long tongue not to mention that he swearing all time ... <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thup:' />
[Image: 26637_navijanjeee409_blic_markodjurica_f.jpg]
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#33
[quote name='stefans' timestamp='1322408035' post='36325']

He was better ranked than Carmelo Anthony and Wade <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl3.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Rofl3' /> <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl3.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Rofl3' /> There was bunch of idiots who put him there <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bag.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Bag' />



For me he is not even good for leagues in Europe.And he has long tongue not to mention that he swearing all time ... <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thup:' />

[/quote]



Not to mention Bosh, Kaman, Hinrich and Ford. If Darko would have been drafted say 10th-15th overall there would have been no pressure on him. He has proven to be much better than guys like Michael Sweetney, Marcus Banks, Reece Gaines and Troy Bell who were drafted in that region. The way that he has played in Minnesota he's proven that he can compete. He's not an All-Star and never will be but he's a guy that you can actually play from a talent perspective no matter what level we're talking about.



The interesting point that you bring up is Darko's attitude. While the Pistons might not have given Darko a fair shot, the Magic and even more so the Grizzlies and Knicks truly wanted to see him succeed and gave him every opportunity that the Pistons did not. Needless to say, the Grizzlies and Knicks gave up on him and the T'Wolves and crazy man David Kahn gave him the All Star treatment to get him to Minnesota. That says a lot about his character. He's not worthy of the star treatment that Minnesota showed him. NBA teams are used to dealing with egomaniacs but that sh*t doesn't fly in Europe. I could see Darko in for a rude awakening if he ever decides to leave the NBA to return to Europe like he has threatened to do over the past couple of seasons.
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#34
[quote name='Sagenas' timestamp='1322403000' post='36323']

Motiejūnas himself said that he's planning to become C in the future and not PF as he is right now.

He doesn't need to stay in Europe for a longer time..what do you expect from him, huh? He's already showing VERY solid results and if you look at him statistically, then I really doubt he would improve a lot on it, also I really doubt that stronger Euroleague teams would fight to get him. There's almost no options for him and he himself wishes to play in the NBA as soon as possible. He said NBA is his dream and I'm sure he even would give a lot more of an effort playing in the NBA then he does here.

[/quote]

Whoa, welcome back Sagenas! We haven't seen you around here for a while.



The key for Motiejunas is what sort of contracts the Rockets hand out in the next month, how the current players play and what moves they make during next off season. Right now here are the bigs on their roster:



1) Luis Scola - PF - Contracted through 2015. We all know what Scola brings, he's well established.

2) Hasheem Thabeet - C - Team option after this season. He's another raw young player drafted #2 overall that hasn't proven anything yet.

3) Jordan Hill - PF - Team option after this season. He's another raw young player drafted in the lottery that hasn't proven anything yet.

4) Patrick Patterson - PF - Team option after this season. He's another raw young player drafted in the lottery that hasn't proven anything yet.



The Rockets have three young players that haven't yet arrived but scouts were high on. Hill and Patterson have at least shown signs of life whilst Thabeet is a long shot. The Rockets clearly need to add 1-2 centers to their roster in the coming weeks as they cannot go in with Thabeet as their sole center. It's clear that the Rockets are going to be bad this season and will almost certainly get another lottery pick in next year's deep draft. If they take another big and if their three youngsters arrive it could be hard for Motiejunas to crack their lineup. Conversely if Hill, Patterson and Thabeet struggle and the Rockets draft a guard, Motiejunas could get a lot of playing time. I think that the Rockets made the trade to provide themselves with insurance in case of the latter scenario and that they liked the fact that Motiejunas could stay over in Europe for a few years. This was before he started dominating at Prokom. We'll see how this all plays out.
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#35
What do you think about the rumor that Rockets may trade Scola for Bulls' Boozer? Would it change something? Well, you are quite right that many things will depend on other players and on draft, too. I just really hope he'll gets his chance and he should be fine. I memorized after draft Motiejūnas saying that in the NBA he'll show some moves that no one have showed it..I think he really can do it, he has enormous offensive potential.
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#36
[quote name='Sagenas' timestamp='1322403000' post='36323']

Motiejūnas himself said that he's planning to become C in the future and not PF as he is right now.

He doesn't need to stay in Europe for a longer time..what do you expect from him, huh? He's already showing VERY solid results and if you look at him statistically, then I really doubt he would improve a lot on it, also I really doubt that stronger Euroleague teams would fight to get him. There's almost no options for him and he himself wishes to play in the NBA as soon as possible. He said NBA is his dream and I'm sure he even would give a lot more of an effort playing in the NBA then he does here.

[/quote]



Yeah I heard that too, but he said maybe after 2, 3 years <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' /> Solid stats in Euroleague is very good, but another thing let's face it - there's huge competition in NBA and a lot of good players warming a bench here. Why I want Motiejunas for longer time in Europe? A lot of things: guarantee of playing time, he still needs to bulk up a little bit more (just a little bit), still has to work with his defence.



Why Euroleague teams should fight for him? He has contract with Prokom and playing as the key player here. He doesn't need to go anywhere.
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#37
You see Prokom as good team to improve?



Come on, no one is going to give him guarantees and I don't player wishes so, he should get his time by himself, that's what a good player should do. Conquering with a lot stronger players can give you a lot more than being in your own juice. Like you wrote "he should be for so and so years"...come on, then later everyone will say like about Sabonis: "when he came to the NBA he was after his prime". Bullshit. Some European people see NBA as hell and they do wrong. Some players fail, some shine and that's it. We can't force it. Sooner or later he'll have to face that and I can't any reasons why it can't be next season. Maybe he should wait till Scola retires? <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Biggrin' />
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#38
[quote name='Sagenas' timestamp='1322425941' post='36335']

You see Prokom as good team to improve?



Come on, no one is going to give him guarantees and I don't player wishes so, he should get his time by himself, that's what a good player should do. Conquering with a lot stronger players can give you a lot more than being in your own juice. Like you wrote "he should be for so and so years"...come on, then later everyone will say like about Sabonis: "when he came to the NBA he was after his prime". Bullshit. Some European people see NBA as hell and they do wrong. Some players fail, some shine and that's it. We can't force it. Sooner or later he'll have to face that and I can't any reasons why it can't be next season. Maybe he should wait till Scola retires? <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Biggrin' />

[/quote]



Motiejunas is playing first time in Euroleague and he hasn't even played for NT yet (though Kemzura made an obvious mistake this summer) and you calling it boiling in your own juice. He's competing against Euroleague bigs and Prokom had 5 close games from 6 (only Barsa trashed them). He's playing in very competitive league VTB. It's not like Motiejunas is rotting here for years, It's a new level for him. I'm not saying he's not ready, I'm saying he could be ready even better if he would play in Eurolague for one more year. It's not like he's completely dominating even in Prokom.

No need to rush things up. He's in great position, I would say almost perfect. Imagine being in Žalgiris with his rotation and Žalgiris is pretty much the same level team as Prokom this year. Sagenas, you're obviously too anxious to see Motiejunas in NBA, let him warm the feet in Euroleague and than VTB playoffs what is almost the same as Euroleague. I don't know if Howard can catch him, but he and most of NBA 4/5 players would surely push him now <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />
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#39
[quote name='stefans' timestamp='1322408035' post='36325']

He was better ranked than Carmelo Anthony and Wade <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl3.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Rofl3' /> <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl3.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Rofl3' /> There was bunch of idiots who put him there <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bag.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Bag' />



For me he is not even good for leagues in Europe.And he has long tongue not to mention that he swearing all time ... <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thup:' />

[/quote]



Do you think Darko would be good for Serbian NT? He is a great defensive center. leading NBA in blocked shots next to Dwight Howard and Javale McGee. I think Serbija needs him. They only have one true center Krstic. I guess Milovan Rakovic too. Miroslav Raduljica is a hot prospect. Milan Macvan is really a 4 i think. Dusko Savanovic is good power forward.
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#40
[quote name='Raze Lupin' timestamp='1322448382' post='36340']

Do you think Darko would be good for Serbian NT? He is a great defensive center. leading NBA in blocked shots next to Dwight Howard and Javale McGee. I think Serbija needs him. They only have one true center Krstic. I guess Milovan Rakovic too. Miroslav Raduljica is a hot prospect. Milan Macvan is really a 4 i think. Dusko Savanovic is good power forward.

[/quote]



Andrew Bogut led the league in blocked shots per game last season. As a Bucks fan I don't get to brag about much so I couldn't let this opportunity pass me by. <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Laugh' />
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