Nov 16, 2010, 5:02 pm
[quote name='Panathinaikos' timestamp='1289921913' post='26303']
Diamantidis has not played well with the national team since 2006. Papaloukas is well past his prime. I am simply saying that not having them does not suddenly remove Greece from being a top team. Everyone acts like they were the whole national team and it's just complete nonsense.
The 2009 Greek team did well without them and there are plenty of ways to bolster that 2009 team. For example, take the 2009 team
PG Spanoulis/Calathes
SG Zisis/Kalampokis
SF Perperoglou/Printezis
PF Fotsis/Kaimakoglou/Koufos
C Bourousis/Schortsanitis/Glyniadakis
Coach: Kazlauskas
and simply improve upon it, let's say with something like this for instance.......
PG Spanoulis/Papamakarios
SG Zisis/Vasileiadis
SF Vasilopoulos/Papanikolaou
PF Fotsis/Mavrokefalidis/Kaimakoglou
C Bourousis/Schortsanitis/Tsartsaris
Coach: Blatt
Are you telling me that this team or some similar variation of it has no chance to beat teams like Lithuania and Serbia? Come on man, get serious. That above team would wreck the last year's team with Diamantidis. Diamantidis and Papaloukas are by no means the deciding factor for Greek basketball.
Spanoulis, Sofo, and Bourousis are all far more important players than either of them. People that say otherwise must live in the past on Papaloukas and only consider Panathinaikos as a way to judge Diamantidis. Well, Papaloukas is old now just like Saras and other great players that get past their time. While Diamantidis has not done jack for the national team since 2006. So the reality does not match the opinions on those two.
Personally, I think the national team would be better off without them, or at least without Diamantidis. Diamantidis is not a real point guard and he can't shoot consistently, yet he can only be effective if he controls the ball on offense. His great help to the team is his defense but he is not really willing to accept just the role of defensive stopper.
Papaloukas would be an enormous help in ball handling and running the offense and for example Calathes could never have to see the team with Papaloukas in. But then again, Papaloukas still can't really shoot and he has to dominate the ball to be effective. Besides that, he has to play next to someone like Zisis for defensive switches and then the back court is stuck without any 3 point shooting.
So to be perfectly honest about, the back court with Spanoulis and Zisis getting helped by say, Vasileiadis and Papamakarios would be a lot more consistent than Spanoulis and Zisis being helped by Papaloukas and Diamantidis. You see the same broken record over and over, teams with a good zone defense expose Greece's lack of outside shooting.
Well, Spanoulis is the only one that can shoot consistently from 3 point range. Zisis can't either, but at least he can consistent hit the mid range. Papaloukas and Diamantidis simply don't consistently hit outside shots. Some shooters like Papamakarios and Vasileiadis would be much more help to the team as far as I see it.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I really don't think I am. I think anyone that has seen Greece play the last several years knows the problem was no outside shooting from the guard positions. I'm not saying that such a team like,
PG Spanoulis/Papamakarios
SG Zisis/Vasileiadis
SF Vasilopoulos/Papanikolaou
PF Fotsis/Mavrokefalidis/Kaimakoglou
C Bourousis/Schortsanitis/Tsartsaris
Coach: Blatt
would win a medal, but it would surely be able to challenge for the final four and I would think at least could make the quarterfinals. I honestly cannot say that Lithuania, Turkey, France, or Serbia would be any stronger than that team.
Teams like Spain, US, Argentina would probably be stronger, yes. But not those other teams.
[/quote]
I could never agree with your opinion that DD and Papaloukas are not the main figures of Greek NT and these probably the most inconsistent players as Bourousis and Schortsanitis are! Come on - all NT powerhouses has enough power in the pain to deal with these two. Bourousis is having some flashy nights in Euroleague as well as Schortsanitis, but to call these two a key players (or leaders) of some powerhouse? That never happened and I don't think it will. Basically, these two never lead their team to any title (or if they did once, they far from a stand in the category of "clutch" or "key players"). Basically Greeks always overrated Bourousis and even baby Shaq, they are too inconsistent.
Now for other arguments, you have some point here. All these discussions who would be favourite are very subjective. But the thing is that Greece will have one and only proven key player - Spanoulis. And while you saying Lithuania and Serbia have nothing more to offer, I can remind you that Lithuania might have Kleiza, Å aras and the great bunch of prospects that already contribute (Pocius, Kalnietis, GeceviÄius. While Greece's prospects couldn't contribute in 2010) and while you mentioning Bourousis and Shocrtsanitis I can give you a long list of the players from the same level (Brothers LavrinoviÄ, Javtokas, PetraviÄius). While Serbia surely has two key player - Teo and KirstiÄ (and uncountable number of prospects). My point is, that such teams as Serbia and Lithuania will have more sure things to COUNT ON.
Diamantidis has not played well with the national team since 2006. Papaloukas is well past his prime. I am simply saying that not having them does not suddenly remove Greece from being a top team. Everyone acts like they were the whole national team and it's just complete nonsense.
The 2009 Greek team did well without them and there are plenty of ways to bolster that 2009 team. For example, take the 2009 team
PG Spanoulis/Calathes
SG Zisis/Kalampokis
SF Perperoglou/Printezis
PF Fotsis/Kaimakoglou/Koufos
C Bourousis/Schortsanitis/Glyniadakis
Coach: Kazlauskas
and simply improve upon it, let's say with something like this for instance.......
PG Spanoulis/Papamakarios
SG Zisis/Vasileiadis
SF Vasilopoulos/Papanikolaou
PF Fotsis/Mavrokefalidis/Kaimakoglou
C Bourousis/Schortsanitis/Tsartsaris
Coach: Blatt
Are you telling me that this team or some similar variation of it has no chance to beat teams like Lithuania and Serbia? Come on man, get serious. That above team would wreck the last year's team with Diamantidis. Diamantidis and Papaloukas are by no means the deciding factor for Greek basketball.
Spanoulis, Sofo, and Bourousis are all far more important players than either of them. People that say otherwise must live in the past on Papaloukas and only consider Panathinaikos as a way to judge Diamantidis. Well, Papaloukas is old now just like Saras and other great players that get past their time. While Diamantidis has not done jack for the national team since 2006. So the reality does not match the opinions on those two.
Personally, I think the national team would be better off without them, or at least without Diamantidis. Diamantidis is not a real point guard and he can't shoot consistently, yet he can only be effective if he controls the ball on offense. His great help to the team is his defense but he is not really willing to accept just the role of defensive stopper.
Papaloukas would be an enormous help in ball handling and running the offense and for example Calathes could never have to see the team with Papaloukas in. But then again, Papaloukas still can't really shoot and he has to dominate the ball to be effective. Besides that, he has to play next to someone like Zisis for defensive switches and then the back court is stuck without any 3 point shooting.
So to be perfectly honest about, the back court with Spanoulis and Zisis getting helped by say, Vasileiadis and Papamakarios would be a lot more consistent than Spanoulis and Zisis being helped by Papaloukas and Diamantidis. You see the same broken record over and over, teams with a good zone defense expose Greece's lack of outside shooting.
Well, Spanoulis is the only one that can shoot consistently from 3 point range. Zisis can't either, but at least he can consistent hit the mid range. Papaloukas and Diamantidis simply don't consistently hit outside shots. Some shooters like Papamakarios and Vasileiadis would be much more help to the team as far as I see it.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I really don't think I am. I think anyone that has seen Greece play the last several years knows the problem was no outside shooting from the guard positions. I'm not saying that such a team like,
PG Spanoulis/Papamakarios
SG Zisis/Vasileiadis
SF Vasilopoulos/Papanikolaou
PF Fotsis/Mavrokefalidis/Kaimakoglou
C Bourousis/Schortsanitis/Tsartsaris
Coach: Blatt
would win a medal, but it would surely be able to challenge for the final four and I would think at least could make the quarterfinals. I honestly cannot say that Lithuania, Turkey, France, or Serbia would be any stronger than that team.
Teams like Spain, US, Argentina would probably be stronger, yes. But not those other teams.
[/quote]
I could never agree with your opinion that DD and Papaloukas are not the main figures of Greek NT and these probably the most inconsistent players as Bourousis and Schortsanitis are! Come on - all NT powerhouses has enough power in the pain to deal with these two. Bourousis is having some flashy nights in Euroleague as well as Schortsanitis, but to call these two a key players (or leaders) of some powerhouse? That never happened and I don't think it will. Basically, these two never lead their team to any title (or if they did once, they far from a stand in the category of "clutch" or "key players"). Basically Greeks always overrated Bourousis and even baby Shaq, they are too inconsistent.
Now for other arguments, you have some point here. All these discussions who would be favourite are very subjective. But the thing is that Greece will have one and only proven key player - Spanoulis. And while you saying Lithuania and Serbia have nothing more to offer, I can remind you that Lithuania might have Kleiza, Å aras and the great bunch of prospects that already contribute (Pocius, Kalnietis, GeceviÄius. While Greece's prospects couldn't contribute in 2010) and while you mentioning Bourousis and Shocrtsanitis I can give you a long list of the players from the same level (Brothers LavrinoviÄ, Javtokas, PetraviÄius). While Serbia surely has two key player - Teo and KirstiÄ (and uncountable number of prospects). My point is, that such teams as Serbia and Lithuania will have more sure things to COUNT ON.