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Should be a great game.

Lithuania already has shown that they can give troubles to USA (In friendly game in Spain).

But once USA seems to be pulling away they must keep their heads cool and not give up or start individual and rushed shots...

No need to say who I will be supporting 110% in this game.

We will win. Believe it we need just good defense and some 3pointers

I would love to Lithuania kick USA in the ass.

Even though I think that Americans will win this game but I couldn't vote for them because of the options in the poll I think we all know what is needed to be done in order to win this game. The questions is whether that will happen or not.

We all know the refs will gift the game to the US. Let's not be naive here. FIBA is clearly not accepting any final other than Turkey versus USA.

I particularly like your divisions here which are completely random and seem to based on which side of the bracket teams played in? I do not see similarities in style of play, roster make up, etc. between Greece, Spain and Serbia and conversely US, Lithuania, and Argentina but ok we'll go with go with your division for the sake of argument.

What justification do you have for Serbia, Spain and Greece being better than the US, Argentina and Lithuania?

The whole point of the world championship is to define the best team in the world. Will the most talented team always win? Not necessarily but you cannot fault whichever team wins this tournament because another team failed to perform.

With that said I see two direct areas where we can compare. Serbia beat Argentina and Lithuania beat Spain. That's it over and done. If you want to say that Serbia has been better than Argentina and Lithuania has been better than Spain I think it's very difficult to argue otherwise.

Did Spain under perform in this tournament? Absolutley. Would they beat Lithuania in a best-of-seven series? Probably. But that's the beauty of the FIBA game, you have to be focused and playing your best 100% of the time or you go home. If we lived in a hypothetical world where teams played a best-of-seven to demonstrate that they are the best team then it would be extremely difficult for any country to knock off the US.

The reality is that it doesn't work that way, the US in particular has been ill-prepared, caught off guard and unable to adjust to in game scenarios in the past which has cost them dearly. I'm glad that the FIBA tournaments are one and done, it forces teams to be at their best throughout the knock out stages.

USA is huge favorite, but I have a feeling this game is unpredictable. A lot will depend on first half, Lithuania needs a good start against USA, just as against Argentina.

If they play like against Argentina and we c USA plays like against Russia, then Lithuania has damn good chance...

Anyway, very interesting F4

Sharp outside shooting, a pesky zone defense and hard physical play on loose balls. I expected nothing less from Lietuva. The exact final score is irrelevant, the US got the test they needed before sunday's title game.

And team doped-up USA wins another game with the support of the referees once more. Not that Durant didn't have a flawless game and the US players didn't play with enough heart scoring 16 points from second-chance offense. It's really pathetic how FIBA and the rest of the world organizations kiss the ass of America in sport. In normal competition every over-hand attempt at stealing a ball is called as a foul since it can't be seen whether there was hand contact between players and the ball. Under-hand stealing is the only sure-fire to steal without getting called for the foul. Why are the Americans exempt from this rule? Much rougher play may be allowed in the NBA, but it's not allowed in international competition. The US played good defence but also fouled a lot. The Kalnietis (If I remember correctly) drive to the basket for the lay-up where his attempt was illegally goal-tended, the ball didn't touch the rim and a US player bats it away. Refs don't give the two points, and what's worse Kemzura doesn't cause hell because of this.

I'm really sick and tired of FIBA's double standard when it comes to handling the US team. All American athletes taking part in international competition should be screened for performance-enhancing drugs just like everyone else. So the US said that if they have to pass through anti-doping screening they will withdraw their participation from international competition. Then so be it, don't take part, I doubt anyone would genuinely care. The USA has a tradition of doping in sport that extends up until school championship levels. A blind eye should not be turned to this in international competition, and ultimately it's the fault of the worldwide governing bodies that drag down the quality of sport by giving free reigns to any US team.

Quote:And team doped-up USA wins another game with the support of the referees once more. Not that Durant didn't have a flawless game and the US players didn't play with enough heart scoring 16 points from second-chance offense. It's really pathetic how FIBA and the rest of the world organizations kiss the ass of America in sport. In normal competition every over-hand attempt at stealing a ball is called as a foul since it can't be seen whether there was hand contact between players and the ball. Under-hand stealing is the only sure-fire to steal without getting called for the foul. Why are the Americans exempt from this rule? Much rougher play may be allowed in the NBA, but it's not allowed in international competition. The US played good defence but also fouled a lot. The Kalnietis (If I remember correctly) drive to the basket for the lay-up where his attempt was illegally goal-tended, the ball didn't touch the rim and a US player bats it away. Refs don't give the two points, and what's worse Kemzura doesn't cause hell because of this.

I'm really sick and tired of FIBA's double standard when it comes to handling the US team. All American athletes taking part in international competition should be screened for performance-enhancing drugs just like everyone else. So the US said that if they have to pass through anti-doping screening they will withdraw their participation from international competition. Then so be it, don't take part, I doubt anyone would genuinely care. The USA has a tradition of doping in sport that extends up until school championship levels. A blind eye should not be turned to this in international competition, and ultimately it's the fault of the worldwide governing bodies that drag down the quality of sport by giving free reigns to any US team.

You're ridiculous. Who on America is using steroids? and since when are they not tested? I'm sorry is Kevin Durant on steroids? I mean at 6'11" 175 lbs he sure looks it, right?....... This is just another hater grasping at straws. The refs played no part in this game. The US gets tested just the same as the rest of the countries and know something about the physiology of performance enhancers before you spout off nonsense. Trust me when I say that nobody on the US roster has the body or a Performance Enhancer Abuser. You just can't stand that the US can send a fresh 12 two years after the Olympic domination and make it to the Title game at the WCs.

Opinions are fine, but to refuse to accept reality is blind.

The US ALWAYS has the refs on its side whether they need it or not. I didn't say however that team USA wasn't worthy of the win.

I never said the US is on steroids, they could be on a wide range of performance enhancing compounds that are much more powerful than steroids. It's been known that none of the US's international athletes pass through anti-doping. Remember Marion Jones? Performace-enhancing compounds don't have to necessarily only add increased musculature out of the norm to an athlete's body. Out of the norm endurance, neural activity, etc. are factors that can be enhanced using peformance drugs. If you think just looking at an athlete is enough to determine whether he's doped up or not, then you are the blind one.

USA won fairly, but...

1. This USA without Durant wouldn't make it to the quarter finals...
2. Half of USA "steals" were fouls...

Quote:You're ridiculous. Who on America is using steroids? and since when are they not tested? I'm sorry is Kevin Durant on steroids? I mean at 6'11" 175 lbs he sure looks it, right?....... This is just another hater grasping at straws. The refs played no part in this game. The US gets tested just the same as the rest of the countries and know something about the physiology of performance enhancers before you spout off nonsense. Trust me when I say that nobody on the US roster has the body or a Performance Enhancer Abuser. You just can't stand that the US can send a fresh 12 two years after the Olympic domination and make it to the Title game at the WCs.

Opinions are fine, but to refuse to accept reality is blind.

The US players are not and NEVER have been tested by the international doping control. They are only tested by the US testing company, which is owned by the NBA. Everyone in the whole world knows this, except for some strange reason Americans.

Quote:USA won fairly, but...

1. This USA without Durant wouldn't make it to the quarter finals...
2. Half of USA "steals" were fouls...

Refs were terrible. Those "steals" and robbed points just killed us. Well, USA played better, but that could haven't beent like that if not those stupid refs...I'm really disappointed by it :/

Quote:The US players are not and NEVER have been tested by the international doping control. They are only tested by the US testing company, which is owned by the NBA. Everyone in the whole world knows this, except for some strange reason Americans.

This is sampled from an article found at the following site: http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/la...wsid=43765

"The organisation has carried out 48 random tests in the first two days of the 2010 FIBA World Championship, testing two players from each of the competing 24 teams. It is planning to carry out at least another 60, meaning more than 100 will be carried out across the 80 games of the tournament."

" "We hope that we can banish the myth that some teams are not tested. Everybody is treated exactly the same and there are no exceptions." "

As for the Marion Jones comment, she has been thrown in jail and stripped of all of her medals for the PEDs she used in 2000. PEDs are detested by the American Public to the point of Congressional hearings and perjury charges. All of our athletes are tested, including basketball players. You're just making up excuses at why we are continually the best at something we invented and gave to the world.

As for the comment about Team USA not even making the Quarterfinals without Durant. Is that supposed to be an insult? "If they didn't have what they have, then they wouldn't be where they are!" Ooooooo, That's a good one. Now where exactly would the vaunted Spain, Serbia and Greece squads be without the 12 players they sent to the Olympics or FIBAeuro? Yeah, that's what I thought. Kevin Durant is awesome, no doubt, but he is just one of our pieces. There was a comment made about US playing in the junior varsity bracket, well that would be fitting considering this is our junior varsity squad.

Quote:USA won fairly, but...

1. This USA without Durant wouldn't make it to the quarter finals...
2. Half of USA "steals" were fouls...

Yeah and half of the fouls were clean steals (i.e. Durant's 7'5" wing spand plucking the Lietuva guard and getting called). The officials for FIBA suck. They're all from different countries, they have no consistency and they interpret rules differently. It's part of the deal when it comes to International tournaments. It's the same for everybody.

Quote:This is sampled from an article found at the following site: http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/la...wsid=43765

"The organisation has carried out 48 random tests in the first two days of the 2010 FIBA World Championship, testing two players from each of the competing 24 teams. It is planning to carry out at least another 60, meaning more than 100 will be carried out across the 80 games of the tournament."

" "We hope that we can banish the myth that some teams are not tested. Everybody is treated exactly the same and there are no exceptions." "

Maybe so, but then again that statement is not clear for WHAT substances they are screened for, like I told you before doping can even be committed on a level of gene manipulation. Certainly the NBA doesn't seem to have that stringent an anti-doping policy, for example steroids are banned, but taking enhancement hormones is not.

Have a read: http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/2423

The interesting info is found on page 8 of a pdf (pages are called CRS, I don't know why) with tables comparing anti-doping policy:

http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/1020...s/2423.pdf

It definitely does look suspicious when every other country's team of athletes look worked out to a normal and expected level, and then you see players like Iguodala who could be taking part in a Mr. Olympia contest as well It's things like that that do create a common impression that the US has a leg-up in what is and what isn't allowed in FIBA anti-doping policy.

Quote:Maybe so, but then again that statement is not clear for WHAT substances they are screened for, like I told you before doping can even be committed on a level of gene manipulation. Certainly the NBA doesn't seem to have that stringent an anti-doping policy, for example steroids are banned, but taking enhancement hormones is not.

Have a read: http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/2423

The interesting info is found on page 8 of a pdf (pages are called CRS, I don't know why) with tables comparing anti-doping policy:

http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/1020...s/2423.pdf

It definitely does look suspicious when every other country's team of athletes look worked out to a normal and expected level, and then you see players like Iguodala who could be taking part in a Mr. Olympia contest as well It's things like that that do create a common impression that the US has a leg-up in what is and what isn't allowed in FIBA anti-doping policy.

Thanks for the interesting info ZEUS

This discussion deserves its own thread but since we have only a couple of posts about it, we can keep it here for now. I took a screenshot of the table from the .pdf file in your post so that it's easier for everyone to see it here instead of downloading the file (I removed the columns that include NFL and ML.

Let's leave emotions aside and look at this issue from a neutral point of view. Here are some facts that in my opinion can't be argued:

1. Most of NBA players possess tremendous speed, athleticism, jumping abilities (I will use the phrase "athletic abilities" in the future when I talk about all the previously mentioned skills). Those players are exclusively Americans (some players from other countries also have great skills. For instance Leandro Barbosa who is very fast. But I am talking about the mixture of all of the abilities mentioned in the first sentence).

2. There were lots of rule changes in NBA to make the attacking basketball dominant. Because of that some players who don't have great fundamentals but have great athletic abilities can dominate the league (travelling is not called, they can make spectacular dunks and even if they make an offensive foul while dunking, it is usually called as a defensive foul).

3. NBA is interested in making as much profit as possible. I'm not judging this goal here because the discussion is not about that. In order to earn more money you have to "sell the product". The more the better. Having players who have phenomenal athletic abilities helps a lot since most of those people who earn money for NBA are mainly interested in certain players, not necessarily the whole league. I'm not sure how far I should go explaining this point. If someone wants, I can go into more detail.

4. NBA focuses on players that are above the team. In other words, one man show is above team play. All you need is players that can do amazing things on the court. Certainly, having extremely athletic players is a must for this goal to be achieved.

Having the points above in mind, it is reasonable to think that such league would be very delighted to have super athletic players playing in it. On the other hand, a player who sees huge possibilities could be prepared to do anything to get to the NBA. In this case "prepared to do anything" includes taking some substances to increase player's athletic abilities. So there is a common interest for the same things from both sides. Would that push some naturally gifted players to enhance their athletic abilities even further? In the end, they become celebrities earning millions while the league also gets more income. Both sides are happy. So far we only used logical arguments that are real.

If there's nothing to hide, why would NBA not allow its player to be tested the same way as any other nation in the world? There can be only two potential answers. 1) They don't trust WADA's laboratories? 2) There is something that they don't want to be known.

The first possibility is hard to believe since the whole world trusts WADA. After all, shouldn't the same standard be applied to everyone?

The second option appears to be more realistic. Especially since the table below clearly shows that NBA players are not being tested for the same substances as other athletes. One would certainly think that a team which always aims for gold should be closely inspected. Moreover, since they clearly possess athletic abilities that are above everyone else's. There should be no exceptions at all if there was an exception then it could only be done to the team that is in the tournament just to make the numbers.

It is very reasonable to suspect that American players are/were using substances that are not allowed for other teams in the world.

In Athens 2004 the American basketball NT and the best American sprinters were "hiding" in the American military base of Souda (in Crete island) where civilians are not allowed, not to even talk about non-American civilians.

So although WADA doctors flew there they were not allowed entrance and those athletes were never tested.