Various news sites are reporting key players from the USA 2008 OG want to play in the 2012 OG. Should they be allowed?
Would you like to see 12 different members from team USA? If you were Mike Krzyewski what would you do?? WHO WOULD YOU CHOOSE FOR TEAM USA?
Source:
http://www.talkbasket.net/news/redeem-te...-3803.html
Source:
http://nba-facts-and-rumors.blogs.cbsspo...4/25683389
Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard and Lebron James have expressed interest in taking part at the 2012 Olympic Games in London, England, for the United States of America. This comes after the USA squad won the World Championships in mid-September for the first time since 1994, winning all nine games by an average of 24.6 points. Bryant, Howard and James were not apart of the gold-medal winning squad in Istanbul. For Howard and James, they wanted the summer off. As for Bryant, he was just coming off knee surgery and wasnât at full-fitness to travel with the team to Turkey. Although you would expect World Championship MVP, Kevin Durant to be in coach, Mike Krzyzewskiâs plans, with Bryant, Howard and James announcing their sudden willingness to play, where would that leave the players that played in Turkey? Such players as, Derrick Rose, Stephen Curry and Lemar Odom, were instrumental in USAâs success in the summer, but will it be a case of one-and-done for the majority of the World Championship winning squad? At this time, itâs a bit early to tell. But, with the Nike Hoops Summit in Portland, Oregon coming up in April â there might be some clues as to what Mike Krzyzewski will be planning
I should add that personally I would like to see all new players for team USA. I think USA has more than 24 players that can compete in FIBA competitions. I think as long as they play as a team and play hard they can be competitive.
I would like to give first dibs to the guys from the 2010 roster. I'd take a couple of guys from 2008 and bring in a few new faces.
My 12 man team:
Deron Williams/Derrick Rose/John Wall
Kobe Bryant/Russel Westbrook/Eric Gordon
Kevin Durant/Andre Iguodala
Kevin Love/Blake Griffin
Dwight Howard/Brook Lopez
I couldn't bring myself to cut either Westbrook or Gordon so I brought them both, but Coach K would be wise to cut one of them and bring Odom or Aldridge instead for more depth down low.
Other players that I would consider if the injury bug hit: Brandon Roy, Tyreke Evans, LaMarcus Aldridge, Gerald Wallace.
In fact, I might even cut Iguodala and bring Gerald Wallace instead. This would be a surprise move but Wallace is a terrific defender, people often forget this about him.
If I was Coach K I would pick the best team possible. The rest of the national teams have now seen two major tournaments worth of Coach K's strategy. Which is pressure defense, hit the ball handlers as much as possible and rely on NBA rep to make the refs swallow their whistles (which has happened so far) and then to run fast and turn games into layup and slam dunk shows.
I would seriously doubt if the other top national teams allow them to play this way again at the 2012 Olympics. For sure, there will be major adjustments to this by then, whether or not Coach K can grasp that or not might be an issue though.
So if I was him I would take the best possible players, because this time he is going to need players that can compete with the other top national teams in more of a half court game. I would expect the other teams to all walk the ball up the court and to hold onto the ball until 1-3 seconds before shooting on just about every possession. To load the team with big men and ball handlers and to bring screens into the back court.
I would be really surprised if the other top teams just allow the US to play that same style of basketball at 3 major tournaments in a row. Simply, no other team is going to beat the US if they let them play that way. However, if they force them to play a grind it out physical half court game, then the US is very beatable.
The US does not have the means to simply force other teams to play their style, rather it has really been that no serious opponent has tried to counter their strategy. In the world championship, Russia tried to counter it but they didn't have enough scorers to win. I would expect the blueprint the Russians used, with some more adjustments to be used by a lot more teams against the US going forward. So my advice to Coach K would be that if he does want the US taking another bronze at the Olympics that he better bring everything he can in terms of a roster.
[quote name='skangles' timestamp='1289434585' post='26146']
I would like to give first dibs to the guys from the 2010 roster. I'd take a couple of guys from 2008 and bring in a few new faces.
My 12 man team:
Deron Williams/Derrick Rose/John Wall
Kobe Bryant/Russel Westbrook/Eric Gordon
Kevin Durant/Andre Iguodala
Kevin Love/Blake Griffin
Dwight Howard/Brook Lopez
I couldn't bring myself to cut either Westbrook or Gordon so I brought them both, but Coach K would be wise to cut one of them and bring Odom or Aldridge instead for more depth down low.
Other players that I would consider if the injury bug hit: Brandon Roy, Tyreke Evans, LaMarcus Aldridge, Gerald Wallace.
In fact, I might even cut Iguodala and bring Gerald Wallace instead. This would be a surprise move but Wallace is a terrific defender, people often forget this about him.
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I don't think that team would win a gold at the Olympics. I expect the other teams to come much more serious this time after the US win at the world championship. After they analyze that team they will see that with lesser players the US won playing the same way as in 2008.
Teams will make adjustments to the weak (almost non existent post defense) that Team USA has and to the lack of shooting they have. Games will be slowed down and forced into half court battles and teams will make adjustments to cut off all of those easy turnovers Team USA is getting.
I don't see that team winning a gold. Teams will make adjustments for Durant as well. Last time they just let him play one to one the whole tournament and get wherever he wanted to on the court. I doubt that happens at the Olympics.
The US needs to bring some guys that defend the post and that can score against hard set in half court defense. A team of just an old Kobe, Williams, and Durant (with teams knowing what he can do) and a bunch of role players does not seem like a gold medal team to me.
Send in London best you have.And not with C team.When Serbia win against USA than to talk about how young team win against Dream Team. <img src='http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
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I can't see any team beating USA in 2012. They will bring too athletic and too talented team anyway. Serbia and Lithuania will be a little bit too young still and Spain might be over their peak (though I might be wrong). Argentina and Greece will be out of the top at the given time, IMO.
I agree that the US needs to bring its best team but I disagree that the most talented players automatically constitute the best team. Look at the 2004 Olympic Team, that team was loaded:
Duncan, Boozer, Jefferson, Stoudemire, Marion, LeBron, Iverson, Marbury, Wade, Anthony, Odom, Okafor.
Some of these guys were still young but that team was loaded with talent and it didn't pan out.
[quote name='straight forward' timestamp='1289496853' post='26183']
I can't see any team beating USA in 2012. They will bring too athletic and too talented team anyway. Serbia and Lithuania will be a little bit too young still and Spain might be over their peak (though I might be wrong). Argentina and Greece will be out of the top at the given time, IMO.
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Did you see anyone beating Wade, Lebron, Howard 2006 USA in 2004? My point is, it's too early to tell.
[quote name='straight forward' timestamp='1289496853' post='26183']
I can't see any team beating USA in 2012. They will bring too athletic and too talented team anyway. Serbia and Lithuania will be a little bit too young still and Spain might be over their peak (though I might be wrong). Argentina and Greece will be out of the top at the given time, IMO.
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Spain and Greece still have the best European teams if they send all their best players and have normal coaches. As for Argentina, as long as they have Prigioni, Manu, Delfino, Nocioni, Scola they can beat any team, including the US.
Lithuania and Serbia being at the top is dependent on those other teams not sending their best players or not having good coaches (like Spain and Greece this summer).
There are two ways teams can go after a disappointment.
1. They can reload with new and younger players.
2. They can get back their best players and get better coaches.
In case number 1, Spain and Greece are done. In case number 2 they are still elite teams and IMO better still than Lithuania, Serbia, Turkey and teams like that.
Case number 1 worked for Lithuania in 2010, but was a disaster in 2009. I really don't think that Spain and Greece will try that route at the EuroBasket because it would risk not qualifying for the Olympics. And once you bring the better players and a better coach and qualify, then everyone expects to see the same team at the Olympics.
So the timing is important. I really don't see Greece and Spain reloading with young players yet. They will just try to get back all the top players and to get better coaches.
Lithuania is probably the favorite in 2011, but I would not put them over Greece or Spain in 2012. Those federations have too much focus and pressure on them to just throw out young teams next summer because as I say, they might not even qualify if they did.
Imagine Spain led by Rubio, Llull, San Emeterio, Claver, Suarez, Aguilar, Vazquez, Marc, etc. and Greece led by Vasileiadis, Perperoglou, Papanikolaou, Pappas, Printezis, Kaimakoglou, Mavrokefalidis, etc. I don't think either federation will risk changing their teams too much.
As for USA, I really don't think their game plan will work again. Teams will be ready for it and they will have to make adjustments. If they just try the same approach again I don't think it will work. Some team along the way will beat them by slowing the game down if they keep bringing teams that lack any interior defense in half court battles.
So Coach K will have to have more of a basketball plan than just one that is dictated simply by athleticism. Even in the games against Brazil and Russia it almost backfired on them, even with friendly refs.
[quote name='Panathinaikos' timestamp='1289636601' post='26217']
Lithuania is probably the favorite in 2011, but I would not put them over Greece or Spain in 2012. Those federations have too much focus and pressure on them to just throw out young teams next summer because as I say, they might not even qualify if they did.
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If Greece won't have DD and Papalpukas any more, they are out of elite for some time (at least), IMO.
[quote name='straight forward' timestamp='1289670212' post='26227']
If Greece won't have DD and Papalpukas any more, they are out of elite for some time (at least), IMO.
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It's not an if anymore. It's a certainty.
[quote name='Panathinaikos' timestamp='1289636601' post='26217']
As for USA, I really don't think their game plan will work again. Teams will be ready for it and they will have to make adjustments. If they just try the same approach again I don't think it will work. Some team along the way will beat them by slowing the game down if they keep bringing teams that lack any interior defense in half court battles.
So Coach K will have to have more of a basketball plan than just one that is dictated simply by athleticism. Even in the games against Brazil and Russia it almost backfired on them, even with friendly refs.
[/quote]
The US strategy going into the World Championships was obvious: Run the offense through Durant. Every team knew this going in and every team had ample of time to prepare for shutting down Durant and forcing other players to carry the team. The point is that nobody succeeded and it's less likely that the US strategy will be as obvious in 2012.
Can the US be beat in 2012? Absolutely, but I disagree with your premise that the gap will tighten based on the opposition's preparation. I agree that to beat the US you have to prevent them from getting into a rhythm and slow the pace. The US will always win in a run-and-gun shootout. Nevertheless, it's a lot easier said than done.
Additionally, Kevin Love had 31 points and 31 rebounds last night! I hope that he becomes more of a focal point on Team USA in the future.
[quote name='straight forward' timestamp='1289670212' post='26227']
If Greece won't have DD and Papalpukas any more, they are out of elite for some time (at least), IMO.
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Why? They played much better without Diamantidis in 2009 than with him in 2010. Besides, Diamantidis only had one good game at the world championship. Papaloukas is old. Neither one of them is one of the major important players for Greece anymore.
[quote name='Panathinaikos' timestamp='1289809065' post='26263']
Why? They played much better with Diamantidis in 2009 than with him in 2010. Besides, Diamantidis only had one good game at the world championship. Papaloukas is old. Neither one of them is one of the major important players for Greece anymore.
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2009 Greek NT would be clear underdog in 2011 against completely filled Spain, Serbia, Lithuania, Turkey, France. And would probably stand in the same line with Slovenia, Russia, Croatia, Germany (with Dirk and Kaman). 2009 Eurobasket was a disaster. Even the team that get awarded didn't show top class BB, except Spain. That was one of these tournaments that send the message to FIBA - European NT have to many tournaments every year (specially the powerhouses). 2011 will be tree times more competitive, having in mind Nowitzki, P. Gasol, T. Parker, A. Kirilenko and other stars will be there.
Why are you so sure about Greece level? You have only one world class player in the backourt now - Spanoulis - and prospects as Pappas and Calathes are far from being ready to compete with the best players (if ever).
[quote name='skangles' timestamp='1289689104' post='26238']
The US strategy going into the World Championships was obvious: Run the offense through Durant. Every team knew this going in and every team had ample of time to prepare for shutting down Durant and forcing other players to carry the team. The point is that nobody succeeded and it's less likely that the US strategy will be as obvious in 2012.
Can the US be beat in 2012? Absolutely, but I disagree with your premise that the gap will tighten based on the opposition's preparation. I agree that to beat the US you have to prevent them from getting into a rhythm and slow the pace. The US will always win in a run-and-gun shootout. Nevertheless, it's a lot easier said than done.
[/quote]
The only teams that even attempted to slow the game down were Lithuania, Russia, and Brazil. And even then only Russia attempted it throughout the game. So the fact is that only one opponent actually tried to really slow down the whole game. I am sure that at the next Olympics almost every team will try it.
[quote name='straight forward' timestamp='1289818199' post='26265']
2009 Greek NT would be clear underdog in 2011 against completely filled Spain, Serbia, Lithuania, Turkey, France. And would probably stand in the same line with Slovenia, Russia, Croatia, Germany (with Dirk and Kaman). 2009 Eurobasket was a disaster. Even the team that get awarded didn't show top class BB, except Spain. That was one of these tournaments that send the message to FIBA - European NT have to many tournaments every year (specially the powerhouses). 2011 will be tree times more competitive, having in mind Nowitzki, P. Gasol, T. Parker, A. Kirilenko and other stars will be there.
Why are you so sure about Greece level? You have only one world class player in the backourt now - Spanoulis - and prospects as Pappas and Calathes are far from being ready to compete with the best players (if ever).
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Diamantidis has not played well with the national team since 2006. Papaloukas is well past his prime. I am simply saying that not having them does not suddenly remove Greece from being a top team. Everyone acts like they were the whole national team and it's just complete nonsense.
The 2009 Greek team did well without them and there are plenty of ways to bolster that 2009 team. For example, take the 2009 team
PG Spanoulis/Calathes
SG Zisis/Kalampokis
SF Perperoglou/Printezis
PF Fotsis/Kaimakoglou/Koufos
C Bourousis/Schortsanitis/Glyniadakis
Coach: Kazlauskas
and simply improve upon it, let's say with something like this for instance.......
PG Spanoulis/Papamakarios
SG Zisis/Vasileiadis
SF Vasilopoulos/Papanikolaou
PF Fotsis/Mavrokefalidis/Kaimakoglou
C Bourousis/Schortsanitis/Tsartsaris
Coach: Blatt
Are you telling me that this team or some similar variation of it has no chance to beat teams like Lithuania and Serbia? Come on man, get serious. That above team would wreck the last year's team with Diamantidis. Diamantidis and Papaloukas are by no means the deciding factor for Greek basketball.
Spanoulis, Sofo, and Bourousis are all far more important players than either of them. People that say otherwise must live in the past on Papaloukas and only consider Panathinaikos as a way to judge Diamantidis. Well, Papaloukas is old now just like Saras and other great players that get past their time. While Diamantidis has not done jack for the national team since 2006. So the reality does not match the opinions on those two.
Personally, I think the national team would be better off without them, or at least without Diamantidis. Diamantidis is not a real point guard and he can't shoot consistently, yet he can only be effective if he controls the ball on offense. His great help to the team is his defense but he is not really willing to accept just the role of defensive stopper.
Papaloukas would be an enormous help in ball handling and running the offense and for example Calathes could never have to see the team with Papaloukas in. But then again, Papaloukas still can't really shoot and he has to dominate the ball to be effective. Besides that, he has to play next to someone like Zisis for defensive switches and then the back court is stuck without any 3 point shooting.
So to be perfectly honest about it, the back court with Spanoulis and Zisis getting helped by say, Vasileiadis and Papamakarios, would be more consistent than Spanoulis and Zisis being helped by Papaloukas and Diamantidis. You see the same broken record over and over, teams with a good zone defense expose Greece's lack of outside shooting.
Well, Spanoulis is the only one that can shoot consistently from 3 point range. Zisis can't either, but at least he can consistently hit the mid range. Papaloukas and Diamantidis simply don't consistently hit outside shots. Some real true pure shooters like Papamakarios and Vasileiadis would be more help to the team as far as I see it.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I really don't think I am. I think anyone that has seen Greece play the last several years knows the problem was no outside shooting from the guard positions. I'm not saying that such a team like,
PG Spanoulis/Papamakarios
SG Zisis/Vasileiadis
SF Vasilopoulos/Papanikolaou
PF Fotsis/Mavrokefalidis/Kaimakoglou
C Bourousis/Schortsanitis/Tsartsaris
Coach: Blatt
would win a medal, but it would surely be able to challenge for the final four and I would think at least could make the quarterfinals. I honestly cannot say that Lithuania, Turkey, France, or Serbia would be any stronger than that team.
Teams like Spain, US, Argentina would probably be stronger, yes. But not those other teams.
[quote name='skangles' timestamp='1289689104' post='26238']
The US strategy going into the World Championships was obvious: Run the offense through Durant. Every team knew this going in and every team had ample of time to prepare for shutting down Durant and forcing other players to carry the team. The point is that nobody succeeded and it's less likely that the US strategy will be as obvious in 2012.
Can the US be beat in 2012? Absolutely, but I disagree with your premise that the gap will tighten based on the opposition's preparation. I agree that to beat the US you have to prevent them from getting into a rhythm and slow the pace. The US will always win in a run-and-gun shootout. Nevertheless, it's a lot easier said than done.
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Skangles I agree with you! I don't believe that Kevin Durant was always going to be the focus tho. It just turned out that way. He was playing out of his mind!Coach K said when you have a guy playing like Durant you have to go with it. Also notice that even when Durant was slowed(meaning he missed shots) other USA team members out hustled the competition on a minute by minute game by game basis. I was so impressed how our guys would be up by 10 plus points half way through the second half of a game yet they would still dive on the floor for a lose ball! There was no quit in USA basketball this WC. Also unlike some have said USA did not have a weak interior defense. USA handled Lietuva and Turkey just fine. Look at team USA's big-men stats, especially for the Turkey and Lietuva games. They matched or out played their opponents in blocks, steals, and scoring. This is why Durant was able to dominate so much because opponents couldn't leave Chandler, Odom, Love, Igudola alone under the basket. Like you stated its easier said than done. I also agree with you that USA has plenty of talent. If you have players that can by into a good system and work together as a team then their can be a team C that could win a medal, even gold. Anyone ever hear of Vernon Macklin, David Lee, Amare Stoudmire or Blake Griffin!?
Kevin Love is amazing!! Did you see the Thunder vs Timberwolves game last night?? He went for 21 -21. He's a beast and the game was intense!
[quote name='Panathinaikos' timestamp='1289920984' post='26302']
The only teams that even attempted to slow the game down were Lithuania, Russia, and Brazil. And even then only Russia attempted it throughout the game. So the fact is that only one opponent actually tried to really slow down the whole game. I am sure that at the next Olympics almost every team will try it.
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In Chess we have a saying "An opponents weakness is only useful if you can exploit it". An opponent may have bad pawn structure, or an unprotected piece BUT if you don't have both a strategy and the equipment to execute. This weakness is meaningless. That being said USA does not have weak interior defense. The USA front court matched or out performed most of their opponents in the WC. Lamar Odom, Chandler, Love and Iggy out rebounded, scored, blocked and stole. Look at the stats!
I agree with you Russia had the best strategy for the pieces they had on the Chess board not all teams can play like they do. Having an American coach was an advantage for them. Brazil is just good and they look to be even better in the Olympics. Argentina may be the best team on paper other than the USA. Turkey had an ok strategy BUT the problem was fatigue. The FIBA tourney was set up where the final four play back to back games. This is stupid rule if Turkey and Serbia have 1 day rest then I believe they have have better performances and different results.
To you other post I have to disagree my friend. USA has enough talent to produce a team "C" that could win a medal. We have college players that would be formidable in 2012 and 2014.Could they win gold? Maybe or maybe not. Gold is not guaranteed for anyone. The competition is so close and in one game knockout round even a weak team can slay a giant. Again USA as a whole is a well of talent.
Also you said that Coach K just used athleticism and that his strategy was just run the ball. This is an over simplistic assessment. Think about it and view thing more objectively. Simply walking the ball down the court is an offensive strategy. This does not answer the question of how do you stop the USA offense. We have a saying in USA. "Offense wins games. Defense wins championships!". Again you are Underrating the USA if you think they can't handle half court set.
You said load up a team with formidable big men? It is unwise to design a team just to beat USA. You seem to have a mentality that teams are preparing for USA without preparing for the rest of the world. A team can not simply have a USA strategy when there is USA, Greece. Spain, Argentina, Brazil, Lietuva and Turkey to worry about. Even if you can beat USA doesn't mean you can beat the rest of the world. Remember 2006? USA is only one country in an international tourney...