(Sep 9, 2011, 12:51 pm)vakasimo2 Wrote: [ -> ]Correct, however "products" gives self esteem too and sometimes it is as needed as a proper training.
So Naumoski was more inspiring to Turkish youth than say, Kutluay?
Turkoglu was always over-hyped for just being in the NBA, but most of the time I would see him play he would more or less suck quite hard compared to the kind of basketball brain Ibrahim had.
(Sep 10, 2011, 10:28 am)ZEUS Wrote: [ -> ]So Naumoski was more inspiring to Turkish youth than say, Kutluay?
Turkoglu was always over-hyped for just being in the NBA, but most of the time I would see him play he would more or less suck quite hard compared to the kind of basketball brain Ibrahim had.
We met Naumoski 3-4 years earlier than Kutluay and under his leadership Efes won a european cup , he is the hero fo us, still.
I think Turkoglu was better than Kutluay , but now he got quite slow that can be seen , yet it is the natural course of life he is 32. Kutluay was a better shooter that's for sure. But still I believe Turkoglu was better overall. Maybe he could have scored more if he had been playing under a leader guard, now he limits himself to harmonize teamplay.
Man, he was superb when he was young.
Well Kutluay was even in good enough shape when he came and played a season for PAOK to avoid going to the Turkish army to do his national service
He was very good for PAO too and instrumental in its big victories. I've watched Turkoglu play for Turkey over the years and I've never seen him have a stellar game for the NT, in contrast to perhaps Erden, Asik, Ilyasova, etc.
What about Arslan? He played for Panionios in Greece, and they only had the best words to say about him as a basketball player and as a character
Watched Ibo for the first time in OAKA in a game PAO trashed Olympiacos by 31 pts... stuff of legend!
(Sep 10, 2011, 2:30 pm)ZEUS Wrote: [ -> ]Well Kutluay was even in good enough shape when he came and played a season for PAOK to avoid going to the Turkish army to do his national service
He was very good for PAO too and instrumental in its big victories. I've watched Turkoglu play for Turkey over the years and I've never seen him have a stellar game for the NT, in contrast to perhaps Erden, Asik, Ilyasova, etc.
What about Arslan? He played for Panionios in Greece, and they only had the best words to say about him as a basketball player and as a character
As you mentioned he was in good shape because he was about 3-4 years away from his retierement. Actully he wanted to play in greece apart form avoiding the service, if you want to see an athlete doing it, it is Tümer Metin, our almost 40 years old national football player.
Hidayet's Efes days were bright and wat he did at Orlando is way too much better than Kutluay, actually these players have this grudge in between each other and I support Hedo. And this competition has some different aspects such as Kutlay was a player of Fenerbahçe (which we galatasaray fans disgust) it is complicated.
Arslan is very couragous and has a great fundemental, his dribbling, lay ups and penetrations are majestic, yet he is not as good at shooting and setting pieces , but overall i would give him 3,5/5 , and I love his spirit that's for sure.
So who would Enes Kanter then prospectively say he is inspired by to become a professional basketball player?
(Sep 11, 2011, 12:26 am)ZEUS Wrote: [ -> ]So who would Enes Kanter then prospectively say he is inspired by to become a professional basketball player?
I really don't know that. Kanter is young he maybe even doesn't know naumoski or Kutlay very well. Maybe he was tal and strong and some otjher people diverted him into basketball , who knows ?
Naturalization is ambiguous at the very least. Rumours are floating round, that in the near future, NT's will be able naturalize 2 players!! FIBA are obviously catering to NBA fatcats like the stooges they are. That's not promoting but destroying the game of basketball. Especially in countries that don't have a basketball culture. Even Team USA has used a naturalized player from Puerto Rico. What a fricking joke. Pathetic!! No to naturalization under any circumstances.
In Hellas we DON'T use naturalized players, and NEVER will. Cheats and cheaters will always find a way, and always have an excuse. The only way to play for Hellas is through ancestry and bloodline. Your roots MUST be of Hellenic heritage. It's that simple. That's the law in Hellas, and it will be etched in it's statutes forever.
Personally I don't want nor desire ANY foreigner, be it naturalized or not, playing for Hellas!!!! That would be an outrage in itself, an insult to my beliefs, and not to mention a cultural violation.
I don't understand your post FivePack. Greece had 3 foreing players on their squad in Eurobasket (Koufos, Calathes, Bramos). All three are first generation Americans with at least one Greek parent. I think that is a pretty good reason to represent a country and have no issue with them playing for Greece but if we take a hard nosed no naturalization stance then those guys need to be part of the discussion.
I think that they need to define the eligibility in terms of both family ties which ranges from strong links like the Greek players to spouse links like Kelati to weak grandparent links like Kaman. I think Kaman is taking it too far but as family ties is sure to be a more sensitive topic I don't know that they can do much here and to be honest it is not that big of an issue.
The bigger issue is how many years a player with no family ties needs to live a country to be eligible to represent it in FIBA play. Did JR Holden live in Russia long enough? Maybe not initially but over his career I definitely think so. What about Ibaka in Spain? I don't think so. Then McCaleb in FYROM. This is the area that can spiral out of control. Knowing that basketball careers are short I'd like to see 3 years to be eligible. This tie isn't going to go away but they need to get better control over it.
By the way FivePack which American are you refering to from Puerto Rico? Duncan was born in the US Virgin Islands is that who you are talking about?
Puerto Rico is a US territory. They are good enough to have their own team much like Scotland and England in FIFA. But if a Puerto Rican wants to play for the US there is nothing FIBA can do to stop it. If the player hasn't played for Puerto Rico yet they are eligible to play for the US by default.
(Sep 18, 2011, 9:16 am)skangles Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand your post FivePack. Greece had 3 foreing players on their squad in Eurobasket (Koufos, Calathes, Bramos). All three are first generation Americans with at least one Greek parent. I think that is a pretty good reason to represent a country and have no issue with them playing for Greece but if we take a hard nosed no naturalization stance then those guys need to be part of the discussion.
I think that they need to define the eligibility in terms of both family ties which ranges from strong links like the Greek players to spouse links like Kelati to weak grandparent links like Kaman. I think Kaman is taking it too far but as family ties is sure to be a more sensitive topic I don't know that they can do much here and to be honest it is not that big of an issue.
The bigger issue is how many years a player with no family ties needs to live a country to be eligible to represent it in FIBA play. Did JR Holden live in Russia long enough? Maybe not initially but over his career I definitely think so. What about Ibaka in Spain? I don't think so. Then McCaleb in FYROM. This is the area that can spiral out of control. Knowing that basketball careers are short I'd like to see 3 years to be eligible. This tie isn't going to go away but they need to get better control over it.
First of all Koufos IS Greek!!
I don't think is so important that he was raised in US.
He lives with his mother(100% Greek) because his father don't live anymore 
and he speaks greek too! In every interview he states that he's 100% Greek. He's Greek, end of story! 
Calathes don't speak greek. His grandfather was 100% Greek and his father is a Greek that lives in US. He has Greek blood so he's Greek! End of the second story!
Well, about Bramos, I don't know much but I'm pretty sure that he's somehow strongly linked with Greece because as FivePack said we just not naturalize players to be stronger! Anyway, if we had chose to naturalize a player, then definitely he was not going to be Bramos!!! 
I'd say if there was a bloodline link up until granparents of a certain country, and the player has a surname that is even from the same country, they should play for the national team.
I don't agree with any Americans being naturalized by foreign countries whether their link to the foreign country is through marriage or residency over a long period. This is about showcasing the best possible team your country has at the given moment, to compete against the same teams from other countries. This shouldn't be about money, but about national pride.
(Sep 18, 2011, 9:16 am)skangles Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand your post FivePack. Greece had 3 foreing players on their squad in Eurobasket (Koufos, Calathes, Bramos). All three are first generation Americans with at least one Greek parent. I think that is a pretty good reason to represent a country and have no issue with them playing for Greece but if we take a hard nosed no naturalization stance then those guys need to be part of the discussion.
I think that they need to define the eligibility in terms of both family ties which ranges from strong links like the Greek players to spouse links like Kelati to weak grandparent links like Kaman. I think Kaman is taking it too far but as family ties is sure to be a more sensitive topic I don't know that they can do much here and to be honest it is not that big of an issue.
The bigger issue is how many years a player with no family ties needs to live a country to be eligible to represent it in FIBA play. Did JR Holden live in Russia long enough? Maybe not initially but over his career I definitely think so. What about Ibaka in Spain? I don't think so. Then McCaleb in FYROM. This is the area that can spiral out of control. Knowing that basketball careers are short I'd like to see 3 years to be eligible. This tie isn't going to go away but they need to get better control over it.
Hellas has NO foreign players dude. Try reading what I write. All those three players you mentioned are NOT naturalized. They are included in the team due to ancestry. Their bloodline is Greek. We don't use foreign players in our team. You really should do your homework Skangles. Naturalized players are NOT allowed to play for Hellas. And rightly so. Ibaka isn't Spanish nor Holden Russian, nor is McCalebb FYROMIAN.
Are you kidding me? They have no roots or connection whatsoever with those countries. I'm second generation Canadian, both my grandparents from my mother's and father's side are Greek. That my friend makes me 100% Greek of Canadian birth. I can ALSO play for Hellas because of my bloodline. I'm actually a citizen of Hellas, because my parents did register me at a local municipality when I was younger. I have a Canadian passport, as well as a Hellenic passport, and this is precisely what the koufos, Bramos, and Calathes family did. That's Hellenic law.
(Sep 18, 2011, 9:24 am)skangles Wrote: [ -> ]By the way FivePack which American are you refering to from Puerto Rico? Duncan was born in the US Virgin Islands is that who you are talking about?
Puerto Rico is a US territory. They are good enough to have their own team much like Scotland and England in FIFA. But if a Puerto Rican wants to play for the US there is nothing FIBA can do to stop it. If the player hasn't played for Puerto Rico yet they are eligible to play for the US by default.
Yes Puerto Rico is U.S territory. Then why the hell does it have a national basketball team for? Tim Duncan is from the Virgin Islands. The Virgin Islands is in U.S territory, but the Virgin Islands also had a basketball team which Tim Duncan played for. Why did the Americans steal one of their players for? The great USA doing the same bullshit as everybody else!! Hellas is doing the same thing? I think not. FIBA work according to countries naturalization laws. There's other players the U.S. have stolen as well. They are cheaters and liars. So *uck the USA. I have nothing more to say on this. Do some homework man!!
Yes it is a terrible injustice that a player would represent a country for which he has had citizenship since birth and clearly has no ties to. How dare the US steal Duncan who most certainly had no desire to represent the country that he has been a citizen of his entire life and was completely helpless. FIBA needs to stop this injustice. Americans stealing Americans is just not right!! Haha, good one FivePack. Do some homework man!! :p
(Sep 19, 2011, 6:47 am)skangles Wrote: [ -> ]Yes it is a terrible injustice that a player would represent a country for which he has had citizenship since birth and clearly has no ties to. How dare the US steal Duncan who most certainly had no desire to represent the country that he has been a citizen of his entire life and was completely helpless. FIBA needs to stop this injustice. Americans stealing Americans is just not right!! Haha, good one FivePack. Do some homework man!! :p
I stressed out the fact that Duncan played basketball for the Virgin Islands. Clearly a double standard and a major hypocrisy by the U.S. You can't play for TWO national teams Skangles!! Like I said, do some homework, and don't try to pull the wool over my eyes. And read the FIBA rules while you're at it too!! The NBA are cheaters, and will always cheat. I'll have the last laugh thanks..
(Sep 19, 2011, 12:20 am)Fivepack Wrote: [ -> ]Yes Puerto Rico is U.S territory. Then why the hell does it have a national basketball team for? Tim Duncan is from the Virgin Islands. The Virgin Islands is in U.S territory, but the Virgin Islands also had a basketball team which Tim Duncan played for. Why did the Americans steal one of their players for? The great USA doing the same bullshit as everybody else!! Hellas is doing the same thing? I think not. FIBA work according to countries naturalization laws. There's other players the U.S. have stolen as well. They are cheaters and liars. So *uck the USA. I have nothing more to say on this. Do some homework man!!
All of the USA territorial islands are born with USA citizenship.
Puerto Rico, Jamaica, US Virgin Islands are all USA citizens from birth. Maybe the greatest Greek player ever Nick Galis, was, born and breed in USA. He leaned his skills in the New York, New Jersey area. He played basketball at the University Seton Hall. Was hired by the Celtics before leaving for Greece. Same with Americans Michael Bramos, and Nick Calathes born, schooled and trained in American universities. I saw an interview with these guys speaking English they both have standard American accents.
Sure these guys may have Greek blood but these guys don't represent "GREEK" basketball they represent American basketball. Other than blood they are no different than Bo McCalebb. All three are American products both in citizenship and training.
So you live in Canada yet know more about Greek citizenship than you do the Geography and customs of your Neighbors USA and islands etc... Hmmm Maybe you follow the old Greek adage "No thyself" too strictly. Maybe you should also know a little of where you are and your neighbors location, history and customs.
Do homework my friend...
(Sep 18, 2011, 5:45 pm)ZEUS Wrote: [ -> ]I'd say if there was a bloodline link up until granparents of a certain country, and the player has a surname that is even from the same country, they should play for the national team.
I don't agree with any Americans being naturalized by foreign countries whether their link to the foreign country is through marriage or residency over a long period. This is about showcasing the best possible team your country has at the given moment, to compete against the same teams from other countries. This shouldn't be about money, but about national pride.
I understand the bloodline link but will you please explain the Prohibition of "Americans"?
Maybe the greatest Greek player ever Nick Galis, was, born and breed in USA. He leaned his skills in the New York, New Jersey area. He played basketball at the University Seton Hall. Was hired by the Celtics before leaving for Greece. Same with Americans Michael Bramos, and Nick Calathes born, schooled and trained in American universities. I saw an interview with these guys speaking English they both have standard American accents.
Sure these guys may have Greek blood but these guys don't represent "GREEK" basketball they represent American basketball. Other than blood they are no different than Bo McCalebb. All three are American products both in citizenship and training. My question(s) to you are:
1.Nick Galis was not a product of Greek basketball. His gifts were taught/trained in the American system.
How did American Galis showcase Greece skill at that time when he didn't learn basketball in Greece?
2.Other than blood,
how do Americans Nick Calathes and Michael showcase Greece basketball when both were taught/trained in the American system?
3.Here is a basketball cultural question.
Is it fair to say that Sofoklis Schortsanitis(Big Sofo) and Dimitris Diamantidis have a common Greek culture? They are both countrymen and share unique Greek experiences right? Like wise Bo McCalebb, Nick Calathes, Michael Bramos are all American countrymen. They share unique American basketball experiences. All three Americans are not culturally your countryman. One does not speak Greece and the other is more fluent in American English. Do you really consider Bramos and Calathes your countryman? They have more in common with McCalebb. I bet the Americans have similar childhood and basketball experiences that SoFo and Diamantidis didn't have.
Do Bramos and Calathes truly represent/showcase Greek basketball??
(Sep 19, 2011, 7:42 am)Fivepack Wrote: [ -> ]I stressed out the fact that Duncan played basketball for the Virgin Islands. Clearly a double standard and a major hypocrisy by the U.S. You can't play for TWO national teams Skangles!! Like I said, do some homework, and don't try to pull the wool over my eyes. And read the FIBA rules while you're at it too!! The NBA are cheaters, and will always cheat. I'll have the last laugh thanks..
1.
when did Tim Duncan play basketball for the Virgin Islands national team?
2.Yes you can play for 2 national teams in certain instances. Read the rules...
3.Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands are two different countries...
4.NBA has nothing to do with this. Tim Duncan was born USA citizen.
