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Greece NT 2011

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 11:54 PM

This is the first time since 2004 that future of this team looks less bright than its past.

Papaloukas and Diamantides, the only active two true Greek superstars recognised world widely, and symbol of Greek basketball of 00s have quit NT.

So has Tsartsaris who had been a versatile big and useful guy for Greece for almost a decade.

Papadopoulos retired from NT two years ago.

Spanoulis will now emerge as the undisputed leader of the team. Sometimes he does good, sometimes not so good, but in international level he tends to be more than good. But this time he won't have Diamantides ripping himself a new asshole trying to cover everything in defence, he won't have Papaloukas coming in to calm the team and take clutch plays upon himself.

He will only have Fotsis on his side from the veterans, who is not the brightest and most stable guy in the world. And his boyfriend Zisis with whom he shares a bedroom, if not more.

Bourousis has proven once more that he can not handle the pressure of a star for Greece NT.

At point or comebo guard we got Calathes who will have more minutes this season. I liked him in WC. He actually had the best assist/turnover ratio (3.5) out of Diamantides and Spanoulis (who had a miserable below 1).

On two we got Vassileiades who will probably get his chance next summer. Pelekanos who can also cover the SF position, but is a limited player offensive wise. Then we got Pappas who will get an even bigger role in Kolossos this year.

Then we go to small forward position which is the worst I think. Perperoglou is not progressing and he will see his playing time limited by Sato in PAO. Papanikolaou isn't even getting chances. Hope Ivkovic looks into this.

Then we got some really nice tweeners. Printezis, who needs to toughen up his defence and Kaimakoglou who is a hard worker and will definitely improve his game under Obradovic. I wouldn't be surprised if he will be a starter in Lithuania. I stopped consider Vasilopoulos as an active player...

Mavrokefalides is talented, but too lazy and soft.

Then we got a bunch of mediocre big bodies like Glyniadakis, Vouyoukas and Mavroeides. I hope the latter one learns a thing or two in ACB and can help NT more than the first two, who were both tested in major tournaments and failed. Unless Koufos makes a huge improvement over the season in NBA.

Last but most important we got the coach issue.

I didn't like Kazlauskas work this year, but the federation should look upon this with more maturity.

First of all he got 1 medal in 2 competitions in 2 years. This is a 50% percentage for a team that plays in a major competition every year.

Also the tournament is taking place in his native Lithuania. This could go a long way for the entire team. From influencing FIBA, refs and even becoming the fans pet team, 2nd favourite behind Lithuania.

Anyway... now that he is past we need to find a better solution. According to most polls in websites most fans want Obradovic, but it's an unlikely scenario and it looks like they will go for a mediocre old Greek coach who will be a transitional coach.

I just hope that the team doesn't see euribasket2011 as a lost cause I want to attend this tournament...
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Posted 15 September 2010 - 12:12 AM

Kazlauskas won't be resigned I think. He by himself said that it's very unlikely.

Papaloukas and DD loss is crucial, but Greece has material. The thing is that it might take time. Calathes should be a main PG in the future, he has all he needs, but he needs to improve shooting mechanics. Pappas also will come. But how soon they will become competitive at the highest level? We'll see. Greece will have to trust on Spanoulis and Zisis and it might be not enough for being a sure contender in 2011.

I heard a lot of good words from Greek fans about their young big fellas and looking forward to see how they'll look at OLY and PAO.

But I know one radically good thing about Greece BB, they have prospect with international super star potential Linos Chrysikopoulos. Give him two years and you will have a guy to go on the offensive end.

This post has been edited by straight forward: 15 September 2010 - 12:19 AM


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Posted 15 September 2010 - 01:02 PM

We can't keep thinking of contending for medals in all the big tournaments when we need to rebuild the team. It's how it works with everyone, when you're rebuilding and don't have any stars on your team, the expectation remain somewhat low and anything that surpasses those expectations is always a plus. Serbia is a very good example of this, where their young team should have at least received 2nd place in the world. Why is there this bullshit notion in Greek basketball that you have to be 25 years old to be a solid player for the national team? We've got all these really talented young men where the respective national team has been performing extremely well. We've got all positions covered, it's not only Pappas and Papanikolaou, it's Sloukas and our other young big men who need big international games to mature, the main backbone of the gold men's 2005 Hellas basketball is done and finished with. We need to be looking into the future, and if a young player shows good promise at 20-21 years of age, then by all means he should be thrown into the deep end and get DECENT minutes so that he may be useful at all times, even at clutch moments.
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Posted 15 September 2010 - 06:46 PM

1. Spanoulis has been the leading scorer of the team ever since 2006. Papaloukas and Diamantidis have not been the leaders of the team, it's been Spanoulis.

As for this bizarre obsession with Diamantidis...........it's all PAO DOF fans. Without Diamantidis they had an excellent EuroBasket. With Diamantidis they had a horrible WC.

Watch the language...

And at the end of the Spain game, it was Diamantidis and Zisis that choked every single time in the last minutes of the game and caused the loss. Diamantidis has not played well with the national team since 2006, and the year he skipped the team, the national team had their best year in recent memory in 2009.

2. Tsartarris and Papaloukas have NOT retired from the team.

3. There is nothing wrong with the team, it was the last two coaches. They need to get a good coach.

Also, don't compare Glyniadakis to Vougioukas. Glyniadakis has always played VERY well for the national team. Vouguoukas was a disgrace. Glyniadakis does not deserve what you said about him.

This post has been edited by Black Urum: 16 September 2010 - 02:07 AM


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Posted 15 September 2010 - 06:52 PM

All members have been repeatedly warned to edit their initial posts instead of posting a new one in a matter of minutes.

As dictated in the warning all such posts will be deleted without further warning.

This post has been edited by Black Urum: 16 September 2010 - 02:08 AM


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Posted 15 September 2010 - 07:14 PM

View PostZEUS, on 15 September 2010 - 01:02 PM, said:

We can't keep thinking of contending for medals in all the big tournaments when we need to rebuild the team. It's how it works with everyone, when you're rebuilding and don't have any stars on your team, the expectation remain somewhat low and anything that surpasses those expectations is always a plus. Serbia is a very good example of this, where their young team should have at least received 2nd place in the world. Why is there this bullshit notion in Greek basketball that you have to be 25 years old to be a solid player for the national team? We've got all these really talented young men where the respective national team has been performing extremely well. We've got all positions covered, it's not only Pappas and Papanikolaou, it's Sloukas and our other young big men who need big international games to mature, the main backbone of the gold men's 2005 Hellas basketball is done and finished with. We need to be looking into the future, and if a young player shows good promise at 20-21 years of age, then by all means he should be thrown into the deep end and get DECENT minutes so that he may be useful at all times, even at clutch moments.


The problem with this theory is that the players being pushed by the A1 league, by the federation, and by the media suck.

Calathes -> sucks and is not national team material. His brother is a better player than he is.

Koufos -> sucks, however he might be national team material in the future, but not now.



Pappas is good. Sloukas is good. Papanikolaou is good. Chrysikopoulos is good. It's true that all if them are good and are national team material. But so what? They are not ready for that level yet. And they are not being pushed to make it like Koufos and Calathes are.

PG Sloukas
SG Pappas
SF Papanikolaou
PF Chrysikopoulos
C Koufos

That is a team for the future, but not now. After the 2012 Olympics that can be the national team, but not now. And yes, that team has huge potential, but this is too early for them.

What Greece needs to do is stop making stupid player selections.

Pelekanos is far better than Perperoglou but he does not get in the team because of PAO politics.

Vasileiadis is far better than Vougioukas but he does not get in the national team due to the same reason.

Charalampidis and Papamakarios are far better than Calathes but don't get selected for the same reason.


Vougioukas was great with Panellinios but he was an epic disaster with the national team. The stupid idiot coach should have seen this problem and taken Glyniadakis again. Glyniadakis has always played well and performed for the national team.

The answer is to get a good coach and select the best players and stop picking the team based on what makes Panathinaikos look good. The young players should not be selected unless they are better than other players at their position.

Sloukas, Chrysikopoulos, Papanikolaou, Pappas all have great potential but they have to EARN their place in the team, not just have it handed to them. Look at Calathes for the perfect example. His spot was handed to him and he has absolutely been horrible the last 2 summers.

On the other hand, Zisis and Spanoulis EARNED their places and they have always been helping the team.


The glaring weakness was the need of a decent third point guard. Diamantidis is a small forward and only delusional PAO fans think he is a "point guard". Calathes just flat out sucks. So, get Papaloukas back and problem solved. Papaloukas has not retired either.

Small forward.....Perperoglou out and Pelekanos in. Problem solved.

Third center.......Vougioukas out and Glyniadakis in. Problem solved.


A shooting guard that can light it up from 3 point range, spread the defense, beat the zone.........select Vasileiadis and problem solved.

A backup combo guard that can defend the one, play off the ball, spread the floor, beat the zone and play next to Papaloukas in the back court..........select Charalampidis and problem solved.

A legit back up power forward........actually use and play Kaimakoglou and problem solved. The idiot Kazlauskas would not even play him, which is total bull shit.

A backup small forward......either Printezis, Papanikolaou, or Vasilopoulos will have to take this spot. If they can't do it, then select Bramos. Bramos is getting no consideration, but if those other guys can't handle the backup SF spot behind Pelekanos (who should be the starting SF) then bring Bramos in.

Fotsis is fine at what he does. Sofo is fine at what he does, but he needs to work on passing out of double and triple teams. I am sure he will have to learn that in Maccabi. His free throw shooting won't be there so that's just something you have to accept.

Zisis just needs to get his 3 point shot back. He is almost totally back to the pre-injury Zisis, he just needs the 3 point shot back and he will be fully back to his old self. Siena is going to work on his outside shot this year. Just one year with them and his improvement was huge. After he was in CSKA he just got worse every year.

Spanoulis is fine. The endless trash and garbage spewed against him is absurd. With Diamantidis out of the team, Spanoulis can play like he did in 2009 and won't see his game suffer because Diamantidis ruins the whole flow of the offense.

As for the defensive contribution of Diamantidis.....it's simple, replace him with Pelekanos and Vasilopoulis (if he is back to normal after the surgery). Pelekanos and Vasilopoulos are 2 of the 4 best perimeter defenders Greece has, along with Diamantidis and Zisis. The two of them can easily replace the defense of Diamantidis.

They are also bigger players and can bother the shots of opposing small forwards better than Diamantidis. They are also better spot up shooters than Diamantidis is, which would help to bust the zone more.

Bourousis is fine. He was playing with a break in his shooting hand for crying out loud. How the hell can you criticize him? When he is healthy he is more than national team material, he is the best center in Europe. The notion that a healthy Bourousis is not good enough for high level competition is pathetic.

When healthy, he is a much better player than Diamantidis is for example.


90% of the team's problem was the idiot coach and the stupid federation dictating so many PAO players to be in the team. Do what I say with the players, and get a good Greek coach like Bartzokas, or even Zouros, and everything will be fine. If they want a bigger name then coach then get Blatt. The team can even win gold next summer.

This post has been edited by Panathinaikos: 15 September 2010 - 07:30 PM


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Posted 15 September 2010 - 11:14 PM

For Greece Eurobasket 2011 is going to be real challenge. They will have new coach and new roster I guess. I worked very well for Lithuania, but it was one hell of a surprise. Having in mind Spain will come with motivation and P. Gasol, Serbia will be even stronger, Lithuania obviously will be red hot team with all that crazy fans, France might come with full package + other team like Turkey specially. I don't think Greece will come as a contender.

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 10:58 AM

^ Right now that we're taking part in Eurobasket 2011 is a success in its own right :lol:
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Posted 16 September 2010 - 05:29 PM

View PostZEUS, on 16 September 2010 - 10:58 AM, said:

^ Right now that we're taking part in Eurobasket 2011 is a success in its own right :lol:

Remember when Greece played in qualifying rounds to get into Eurobasket 2003?
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Posted 16 September 2010 - 05:59 PM

View Poststraight forward, on 15 September 2010 - 11:14 PM, said:

For Greece Eurobasket 2011 is going to be real challenge. They will have new coach and new roster I guess. I worked very well for Lithuania, but it was one hell of a surprise. Having in mind Spain will come with motivation and P. Gasol, Serbia will be even stronger, Lithuania obviously will be red hot team with all that crazy fans, France might come with full package + other team like Turkey specially. I don't think Greece will come as a contender.


Why would Greece have a new roster? All they need is to bring back players like Pelekanos, Papaloukas, Glyniadakis. There is no need for a new roster. Stop exaggerating everything.

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 08:22 PM

According to rumours Kazlauskas did not have a problem with Papaloukas joining the team after he had changed his mind.

But instead of deciding himself he made the players vote to either accept him or not, and obviously they rejected his return.

Also Bourousis was playing with a broken hand, and one night he was in so much pain he had to visit an Ankara hospital, something which was silences by the Greek loby... err I mean media.
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Posted 02 October 2010 - 12:25 AM

View PostBlack Urum, on 14 September 2010 - 11:54 PM, said:

This is the first time since 2004 that future of this team looks less bright than its past.

Papaloukas and Diamantides, the only active two true Greek superstars recognised world widely, and symbol of Greek basketball of 00s have quit NT.

So has Tsartsaris who had been a versatile big and useful guy for Greece for almost a decade.

Papadopoulos retired from NT two years ago.

Spanoulis will now emerge as the undisputed leader of the team. Sometimes he does good, sometimes not so good, but in international level he tends to be more than good. But this time he won't have Diamantides ripping himself a new asshole trying to cover everything in defence, he won't have Papaloukas coming in to calm the team and take clutch plays upon himself.

He will only have Fotsis on his side from the veterans, who is not the brightest and most stable guy in the world. And his boyfriend Zisis with whom he shares a bedroom, if not more.

Bourousis has proven once more that he can not handle the pressure of a star for Greece NT.

At point or comebo guard we got Calathes who will have more minutes this season. I liked him in WC. He actually had the best assist/turnover ratio (3.5) out of Diamantides and Spanoulis (who had a miserable below 1).

On two we got Vassileiades who will probably get his chance next summer. Pelekanos who can also cover the SF position, but is a limited player offensive wise. Then we got Pappas who will get an even bigger role in Kolossos this year.

Then we go to small forward position which is the worst I think. Perperoglou is not progressing and he will see his playing time limited by Sato in PAO. Papanikolaou isn't even getting chances. Hope Ivkovic looks into this.

Then we got some really nice tweeners. Printezis, who needs to toughen up his defence and Kaimakoglou who is a hard worker and will definitely improve his game under Obradovic. I wouldn't be surprised if he will be a starter in Lithuania. I stopped consider Vasilopoulos as an active player...

Mavrokefalides is talented, but too lazy and soft.

Then we got a bunch of mediocre big bodies like Glyniadakis, Vouyoukas and Mavroeides. I hope the latter one learns a thing or two in ACB and can help NT more than the first two, who were both tested in major tournaments and failed. Unless Koufos makes a huge improvement over the season in NBA.

Last but most important we got the coach issue.

I didn't like Kazlauskas work this year, but the federation should look upon this with more maturity.

First of all he got 1 medal in 2 competitions in 2 years. This is a 50% percentage for a team that plays in a major competition every year.

Also the tournament is taking place in his native Lithuania. This could go a long way for the entire team. From influencing FIBA, refs and even becoming the fans pet team, 2nd favourite behind Lithuania.

Anyway... now that he is past we need to find a better solution. According to most polls in websites most fans want Obradovic, but it's an unlikely scenario and it looks like they will go for a mediocre old Greek coach who will be a transitional coach.

I just hope that the team doesn't see euribasket2011 as a lost cause I want to attend this tournament...


Urum is Sofo gone from the Greek NT?? He is a beast in the middle also if you fight with Serbia he can defend you. LOL

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 08:29 AM

No, he isn't. If he has a decent season he will be in the squad, no matter what.
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Posted 15 November 2010 - 07:31 PM

David Blatt is #1 favourite to replace Kazlauskas. I don't like it. I would prefer Pascual who is also in the shortlist.
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Posted 16 November 2010 - 04:20 PM

View PostBlack Urum, on 15 November 2010 - 07:31 PM, said:

David Blatt is #1 favourite to replace Kazlauskas. I don't like it. I would prefer Pascual who is also in the shortlist.


What is the short list?

Also, I would much rather have Blatt than Pascual. Pascual is a tyrant coach and his scheme relies way too much on 3 point shooting much like Kazluaskas. He also has shown zero player development with Rubio, who was practically a better player at age 16 than he is now.

Between those two, I would take Blatt 10 times out of 10.

This post has been edited by Panathinaikos: 16 November 2010 - 04:20 PM


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Posted 16 November 2010 - 05:02 PM

View PostPanathinaikos, on 16 November 2010 - 04:38 PM, said:

Diamantidis has not played well with the national team since 2006. Papaloukas is well past his prime. I am simply saying that not having them does not suddenly remove Greece from being a top team. Everyone acts like they were the whole national team and it's just complete nonsense.

The 2009 Greek team did well without them and there are plenty of ways to bolster that 2009 team. For example, take the 2009 team

PG Spanoulis/Calathes
SG Zisis/Kalampokis
SF Perperoglou/Printezis
PF Fotsis/Kaimakoglou/Koufos
C Bourousis/Schortsanitis/Glyniadakis

Coach: Kazlauskas

and simply improve upon it, let's say with something like this for instance.......


PG Spanoulis/Papamakarios
SG Zisis/Vasileiadis
SF Vasilopoulos/Papanikolaou
PF Fotsis/Mavrokefalidis/Kaimakoglou
C Bourousis/Schortsanitis/Tsartsaris

Coach: Blatt

Are you telling me that this team or some similar variation of it has no chance to beat teams like Lithuania and Serbia? Come on man, get serious. That above team would wreck the last year's team with Diamantidis. Diamantidis and Papaloukas are by no means the deciding factor for Greek basketball.

Spanoulis, Sofo, and Bourousis are all far more important players than either of them. People that say otherwise must live in the past on Papaloukas and only consider Panathinaikos as a way to judge Diamantidis. Well, Papaloukas is old now just like Saras and other great players that get past their time. While Diamantidis has not done jack for the national team since 2006. So the reality does not match the opinions on those two.

Personally, I think the national team would be better off without them, or at least without Diamantidis. Diamantidis is not a real point guard and he can't shoot consistently, yet he can only be effective if he controls the ball on offense. His great help to the team is his defense but he is not really willing to accept just the role of defensive stopper.

Papaloukas would be an enormous help in ball handling and running the offense and for example Calathes could never have to see the team with Papaloukas in. But then again, Papaloukas still can't really shoot and he has to dominate the ball to be effective. Besides that, he has to play next to someone like Zisis for defensive switches and then the back court is stuck without any 3 point shooting.

So to be perfectly honest about, the back court with Spanoulis and Zisis getting helped by say, Vasileiadis and Papamakarios would be a lot more consistent than Spanoulis and Zisis being helped by Papaloukas and Diamantidis. You see the same broken record over and over, teams with a good zone defense expose Greece's lack of outside shooting.

Well, Spanoulis is the only one that can shoot consistently from 3 point range. Zisis can't either, but at least he can consistent hit the mid range. Papaloukas and Diamantidis simply don't consistently hit outside shots. Some shooters like Papamakarios and Vasileiadis would be much more help to the team as far as I see it.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I really don't think I am. I think anyone that has seen Greece play the last several years knows the problem was no outside shooting from the guard positions. I'm not saying that such a team like,


PG Spanoulis/Papamakarios
SG Zisis/Vasileiadis
SF Vasilopoulos/Papanikolaou
PF Fotsis/Mavrokefalidis/Kaimakoglou
C Bourousis/Schortsanitis/Tsartsaris

Coach: Blatt

would win a medal, but it would surely be able to challenge for the final four and I would think at least could make the quarterfinals. I honestly cannot say that Lithuania, Turkey, France, or Serbia would be any stronger than that team.

Teams like Spain, US, Argentina would probably be stronger, yes. But not those other teams.


I could never agree with your opinion that DD and Papaloukas are not the main figures of Greek NT and these probably the most inconsistent players as Bourousis and Schortsanitis are! Come on - all NT powerhouses has enough power in the pain to deal with these two. Bourousis is having some flashy nights in Euroleague as well as Schortsanitis, but to call these two a key players (or leaders) of some powerhouse? That never happened and I don't think it will. Basically, these two never lead their team to any title (or if they did once, they far from a stand in the category of "clutch" or "key players"). Basically Greeks always overrated Bourousis and even baby Shaq, they are too inconsistent.

Now for other arguments, you have some point here. All these discussions who would be favourite are very subjective. But the thing is that Greece will have one and only proven key player - Spanoulis. And while you saying Lithuania and Serbia have nothing more to offer, I can remind you that Lithuania might have Kleiza, Šaras and the great bunch of prospects that already contribute (Pocius, Kalnietis, Gecevičius. While Greece's prospects couldn't contribute in 2010) and while you mentioning Bourousis and Shocrtsanitis I can give you a long list of the players from the same level (Brothers Lavrinovič, Javtokas, Petravičius). While Serbia surely has two key player - Teo and Kirstič (and uncountable number of prospects). My point is, that such teams as Serbia and Lithuania will have more sure things to COUNT ON.

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 07:40 AM

View Poststraight forward, on 16 November 2010 - 05:02 PM, said:

I could never agree with your opinion that DD and Papaloukas are not the main figures of Greek NT and these probably the most inconsistent players as Bourousis and Schortsanitis are! Come on - all NT powerhouses has enough power in the pain to deal with these two. Bourousis is having some flashy nights in Euroleague as well as Schortsanitis, but to call these two a key players (or leaders) of some powerhouse? That never happened and I don't think it will. Basically, these two never lead their team to any title (or if they did once, they far from a stand in the category of "clutch" or "key players"). Basically Greeks always overrated Bourousis and even baby Shaq, they are too inconsistent.

Now for other arguments, you have some point here. All these discussions who would be favourite are very subjective. But the thing is that Greece will have one and only proven key player - Spanoulis. And while you saying Lithuania and Serbia have nothing more to offer, I can remind you that Lithuania might have Kleiza, Šaras and the great bunch of prospects that already contribute (Pocius, Kalnietis, Gecevičius. While Greece's prospects couldn't contribute in 2010) and while you mentioning Bourousis and Shocrtsanitis I can give you a long list of the players from the same level (Brothers Lavrinovič, Javtokas, Petravičius). While Serbia surely has two key player - Teo and Kirstič (and uncountable number of prospects). My point is, that such teams as Serbia and Lithuania will have more sure things to COUNT ON.


Every single summer 2006-2010 Spanoulis was the best player, the leading scorer, the go to player, the first option, the guy that took the last shot, etc. on Greece's national team. Papaloukas and Diamantidis were never once the team's leader in the last 4 years. You are with all due respect, greatly exaggerating the impact that Diamantidis had in Greece's national team.

Papaloukas was spectacular in 2004-2006 era. But since then he did not really so much of anything. Diamantidis was great in 2004-2006 era (although not as good as Papaloukas was) and since that time was not doing much of anything for Greece's national team.

From 2006-2010, Spanoulis has been Greece's best player and leader every single summer. To argue that is showing some clear bias and that there is no objectivity in your arguments. In fact, last summer, Zisis played overall much better than Diamantidis did.

You are equating Papaloukas and Diamantidis to Saras, Pau, Scola, and Manu in terms of their importance to their national team. That is totally wrong. Spanoulis is the leader of the team and has been for years. And once again, Papaloukas is old. He is getting like Saras now. Did Lithuania's national team end just because Saras was not in the team? No.

And Diamantidis is a great player in his own way. IMO a top 5 Euroleague player. But he is also not a real point guard but he has to have the ball in his hands to be effective in offense. His point guard play is way to predictable against good competition as all he does is drive and kick out splits over and over like a broken record. He is not a pure shooter and teams zone up on Greece and sag off him and this problem costs Greece losses for years now.

Diamantidis would be awesome for Greece is he accepted a defensive stopper and all around role, but he won't. That was clear this last summer, even though Kazlauskas tried to move him to that role. Diamantidis played one good game in the whole tournament, which was the last game against Spain. But at then end of the game he made stupid turnovers and fouls and that, along with the stupid turnovers of Zisis cost Greece the game.

Diamantidis has never been the leader of anything but Iraklis. Point blank fact. In 2005 when Greece won the EuroBasket, Papaloukas lead the team, along with Zisis. It was Papaloukas and Zisis that lead that championship team.

Spanoulis, Papaloukas, and Sofo lead the win over USA in 2006, especially in particular it was Spanoulis. In 2007, PAO was lead in Euroleague to the title by Siska. I don't care what any PAO DOF homers claim. Siska was the leader of that team.

In 2009, Spanoulis led PAO to both the Euroleague and Greek League championships. It was not Diamantidis, who barely even played, sat on the bench and was not even helpful when he did play. Yet PAO fans make up a lie that Diamantidis led the team. It was not Saras either, and I know you have claimed over and over that it was Saras.

No it was not. Saras led PAO in the fourth quarter against Olympiacos in the semifinal. No arguing that. But Spanoulis led PAO in everything else. All season in Euroleague, during the first half against Oly, during the game against CSKA, hit the game winning basket really in the final, and led the team in the Greek league, Greek playoffs, and Greek Finals.

Diamantidis is a great DEFENDER and ALL AROUND PLAYER......OVERALL I think he is probably a top 5 Euroleague player and if not that then certainly he is a top 5-10. Burt he is NOT and never has been a leader or a superstar, or as you call it a "world class player". He's never been that ever.

It was always Papaloukas, Siska, Spanoulis, Saras that carried him his whole career. He tried to be the "leader" of Greece in 2010 and it was an epic disaster. You will see what happens to PAO now that Spanoulis is in the other team.

Just like last year in the Greek finals it was Spanoulis that literally had to take over every game of the 3 PAO wins in the fourth quarter, make every key play, score every big basket, etc.

Diamantidis is a great player, but he's in no way in hell close to as good as you are making him out to be.

This post has been edited by Panathinaikos: 17 November 2010 - 07:50 AM


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Posted 17 November 2010 - 04:02 PM

View PostPanathinaikos, on 17 November 2010 - 07:40 AM, said:

Every single summer 2006-2010 Spanoulis was the best player, the leading scorer, the go to player, the first option, the guy that took the last shot, etc. on Greece's national team. Papaloukas and Diamantidis were never once the team's leader in the last 4 years. You are with all due respect, greatly exaggerating the impact that Diamantidis had in Greece's national team.

Papaloukas was spectacular in 2004-2006 era. But since then he did not really so much of anything. Diamantidis was great in 2004-2006 era (although not as good as Papaloukas was) and since that time was not doing much of anything for Greece's national team.

From 2006-2010, Spanoulis has been Greece's best player and leader every single summer. To argue that is showing some clear bias and that there is no objectivity in your arguments. In fact, last summer, Zisis played overall much better than Diamantidis did.

You are equating Papaloukas and Diamantidis to Saras, Pau, Scola, and Manu in terms of their importance to their national team. That is totally wrong. Spanoulis is the leader of the team and has been for years. And once again, Papaloukas is old. He is getting like Saras now. Did Lithuania's national team end just because Saras was not in the team? No.

And Diamantidis is a great player in his own way. IMO a top 5 Euroleague player. But he is also not a real point guard but he has to have the ball in his hands to be effective in offense. His point guard play is way to predictable against good competition as all he does is drive and kick out splits over and over like a broken record. He is not a pure shooter and teams zone up on Greece and sag off him and this problem costs Greece losses for years now.

Diamantidis would be awesome for Greece is he accepted a defensive stopper and all around role, but he won't. That was clear this last summer, even though Kazlauskas tried to move him to that role. Diamantidis played one good game in the whole tournament, which was the last game against Spain. But at then end of the game he made stupid turnovers and fouls and that, along with the stupid turnovers of Zisis cost Greece the game.

Diamantidis has never been the leader of anything but Iraklis. Point blank fact. In 2005 when Greece won the EuroBasket, Papaloukas lead the team, along with Zisis. It was Papaloukas and Zisis that lead that championship team.

Spanoulis, Papaloukas, and Sofo lead the win over USA in 2006, especially in particular it was Spanoulis. In 2007, PAO was lead in Euroleague to the title by Siska. I don't care what any PAO DOF homers claim. Siska was the leader of that team.

In 2009, Spanoulis led PAO to both the Euroleague and Greek League championships. It was not Diamantidis, who barely even played, sat on the bench and was not even helpful when he did play. Yet PAO fans make up a lie that Diamantidis led the team. It was not Saras either, and I know you have claimed over and over that it was Saras.

No it was not. Saras led PAO in the fourth quarter against Olympiacos in the semifinal. No arguing that. But Spanoulis led PAO in everything else. All season in Euroleague, during the first half against Oly, during the game against CSKA, hit the game winning basket really in the final, and led the team in the Greek league, Greek playoffs, and Greek Finals.

Diamantidis is a great DEFENDER and ALL AROUND PLAYER......OVERALL I think he is probably a top 5 Euroleague player and if not that then certainly he is a top 5-10. Burt he is NOT and never has been a leader or a superstar, or as you call it a "world class player". He's never been that ever.

It was always Papaloukas, Siska, Spanoulis, Saras that carried him his whole career. He tried to be the "leader" of Greece in 2010 and it was an epic disaster. You will see what happens to PAO now that Spanoulis is in the other team.

Just like last year in the Greek finals it was Spanoulis that literally had to take over every game of the 3 PAO wins in the fourth quarter, make every key play, score every big basket, etc.

Diamantidis is a great player, but he's in no way in hell close to as good as you are making him out to be.


One of the reasons Spanoulis left PAO is that he didn't play as much as he wanted. Obradovic depended on Diamantidis more, so let the coach be the one who knows better!! Besides, Spanoulis was a member of the national team last summer as well so he is as "responsible" as Diamantidis for the team's losses.

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 10:46 AM

View Postmiss green, on 17 November 2010 - 04:02 PM, said:

One of the reasons Spanoulis left PAO is that he didn't play as much as he wanted. Obradovic depended on Diamantidis more, so let the coach be the one who knows better!! Besides, Spanoulis was a member of the national team last summer as well so he is as "responsible" as Diamantidis for the team's losses.


This year PAO will be in big trouble in those games because they don't have any go to player in offense. Who will it be? Tepic? Perperoglou? Diamantidis? No. Batiste could be the guy but first you need to set him up. He is not a creator and he does not have the ball in his hands.

I don't see guys like Sato and Calathes doing it. So the most likely guy then would be Nicholas. He's capable of being that new go to scorer, but truth be told he is a bit too streaky of a shooter and relies on his long distance shots a bit too much. He could be like Navarro and shot you into a victory or also shoot you into a defeat.

There is not a Siska like in 2007, nor a Spanoulis like in 2008-2010 in PAO now. There is not even a guy like Saras in 2008-2009 era who could at least be a go to guy in spurts. It's not to say that a guy like Perpe or Diamantidis cannot carry a team for one game because they can. But in a back to back elimination like a final four and especially in a 5 game playoff series I don't see it happening.

PAO is more likely to win a Greek Cup because it is a one game deal. A final four is less likely. A 5 game series against a Euroleague team depends on the match up. I don't see them winning a 5 game series in the playoffs in A1 against Olympiacos.

It will be just like the last few years when Olympiacos did not really have a go to scorer late in the games that was dependable. People say Teodosic is but he's really not. He's dependable for a big play, a big shot, the last shot of the game, but not for carrying a team in a playoff series.

I don't see anyone on PAO's roster than can do that. Olympiacos at least has Spanoulis. Diamantidis and Teodosic are more or less in the same in that regard. They can make the big plays and shots, but they should not be counted on as to take over the 4th quarter in offense in every key game.

So between Spanoulis (who has proven he can do this) and Nicholas (the likely one to try it with PAO but who is not proven in that role) I think it's too shaky for PAO. Nicholas can be that guy, but will he? For some reason I don't see it.

This post has been edited by Panathinaikos: 18 November 2010 - 10:49 AM


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Posted 18 November 2010 - 03:51 PM

View PostPanathinaikos, on 18 November 2010 - 10:46 AM, said:

This year PAO will be in big trouble in those games because they don't have any go to player in offense. Who will it be? Tepic? Perperoglou? Diamantidis? No. Batiste could be the guy but first you need to set him up. He is not a creator and he does not have the ball in his hands.

I don't see guys like Sato and Calathes doing it. So the most likely guy then would be Nicholas. He's capable of being that new go to scorer, but truth be told he is a bit too streaky of a shooter and relies on his long distance shots a bit too much. He could be like Navarro and shot you into a victory or also shoot you into a defeat.

There is not a Siska like in 2007, nor a Spanoulis like in 2008-2010 in PAO now. There is not even a guy like Saras in 2008-2009 era who could at least be a go to guy in spurts. It's not to say that a guy like Perpe or Diamantidis cannot carry a team for one game because they can. But in a back to back elimination like a final four and especially in a 5 game playoff series I don't see it happening.

PAO is more likely to win a Greek Cup because it is a one game deal. A final four is less likely. A 5 game series against a Euroleague team depends on the match up. I don't see them winning a 5 game series in the playoffs in A1 against Olympiacos.

It will be just like the last few years when Olympiacos did not really have a go to scorer late in the games that was dependable. People say Teodosic is but he's really not. He's dependable for a big play, a big shot, the last shot of the game, but not for carrying a team in a playoff series.

I don't see anyone on PAO's roster than can do that. Olympiacos at least has Spanoulis. Diamantidis and Teodosic are more or less in the same in that regard. They can make the big plays and shots, but they should not be counted on as to take over the 4th quarter in offense in every key game.

So between Spanoulis (who has proven he can do this) and Nicholas (the likely one to try it with PAO but who is not proven in that role) I think it's too shaky for PAO. Nicholas can be that guy, but will he? For some reason I don't see it.


PAO didn't get last Euroleague's title with Spanoulis and Greece didn't get a title as well last summer. So, the fact that Olympiakos signed Spanoulis doesn't mean that they will win the greek championship.
Spanoulis is a great player but he is not more valuable than Diamantidis! Diamantidis can do many things: scoring, assists, blocks... Bill's game is more "dimensional". This why most of the times he gets the right defense, he can't do much.

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